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Why Most Brands Get Creatives Wrong (And How to Fix It) – with Camilo Castañeda

Published on: 9th May, 2025

In this episode of Ecom Growth Insider, I sit down with Camilo Castañeda, a true expert when it comes to ad creatives for e-commerce brands. Camilo is the founder of Epic Ads Lab, where he helps 7–8-figure DTC brands craft scroll-stopping ads using UGC, influencers, static visuals, and AI-powered video workflows. He’s also built the #1 video editing community online, helping editors and marketers elevate their creative game.

We dive deep into the real creative problems holding brands back, the biggest mistakes most eCom founders are making, and how to think about content when you want to scale profitably through paid social.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

  • Why most DTC brands still don’t understand creative strategy (and how to fix that)
  • The exact creative structure Camilo uses to scale top e-commerce brands
  • What makes a UGC ad actually work in 2025
  • The most common creative mistakes that kill performance
  • The role of AI in modern ad creation (and what it can’t replace)
  • Advice for brands just starting out vs. those doing 7–8-figures
  • How to stand out in a saturated creative market
  • Why founders should never be the bottleneck in content production
  • And tons of tactical takeaways on hiring, scripting, editing & testing creatives

Whether you’re a founder, media buyer, or creative director—this episode will give you the clarity (and creative inspiration) to level up your content and drive growth.


Connect with Camilo:


Subscribe to Ecom Growth Insider

Real behind-the-scenes strategies from the trenches of scaling DTC brands — with founders, marketers, and growth experts. Hosted by Andrej Tumachowitsch.

Transcript
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Welcome to Ecom

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Growth Insider, the

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show where we go

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behind the scenes

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with direct to

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consumer founders,

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marketers and growth

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experts who are

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scaling e commerce

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brands to seven,

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eight and even nine

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figures.

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I'm your host Andrej

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Tomahovic, founder

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of Holo Growth and

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on this podcast we

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cut through the

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noise and get to

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the real strategies

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that are working

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right now.

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Today I'm here

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with Camilo.

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Camilo is an ad

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creative expert with

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hundreds of

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thousands followers

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across all of your

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social media

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channels supporting

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a bunch of e

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commerce brands and

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helps them scale

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using hyper targeted

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ad creatives and at

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the same time also

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has one of the

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largest, if not the

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largest video

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editing communities

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on this world.

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Today we'll basically

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be going deep into

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what actually works

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in 2025 when it

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comes to e commerce

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ad creatives, what

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mistakes brands are

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making, how to scale

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using at creatives,

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UGC and also where

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the industry in

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general is headed.

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Hi Camilo, and to

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kick things off, do

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you just want to give

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tell us a little

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bit about you

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and your background?

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Of course.

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Thank you for

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that intro.

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I love that.

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Yeah.

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My name is Camilo.

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I run an agency

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called Epic Ads Lab.

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I used to be a video

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editor whilst I was

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trying to become

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an engineer.

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So I became an

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engineer and I

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worked in industry

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consulting and then

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I, I was an editor

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making YouTube

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videos, showing what

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I was learning and

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that led into doing

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product commercials

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which led into

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working with brands,

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then which led into

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building an agency

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and now we're here

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just making videos

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every single day.

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Nice.

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That sounds fun.

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So was it like your,

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your plan to get

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into, into e

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commerce or did you

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just end up there?

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I.

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It was a bit of a 5050

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because I, I think

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I always wanted to

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be, I actually wanted

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to be a YouTuber.

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I wanted to be like

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a, like a YouTube

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creator that made

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cool videos

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and people go wow,

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that's a cool video.

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And then I realized my

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or the part that I

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wanted to get to was

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to make these really

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fancy product

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commercials, like

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really nice looking

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studio lights, camera

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angles, like I know

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everything about how

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to use a camera and a

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gimbal and whatnot.

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And then I was

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doing that for a bit

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and it bought

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up my following.

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And then I was getting

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e commerce brands

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saying hey, can you

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do this commercial

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for my brand?

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So I was getting

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products shipped to

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my house and during

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COVID this happened a

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lot and then we kind

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of went into doing

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loads and loads of

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that until I think

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TikTok came out and

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then product high

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production videos

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just, just didn't

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Convert as well,

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because everyone was

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doing that UGC type

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organic.

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And so someone will

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see something that's

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really polished

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and then they'll

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scroll past.

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So I had to pivot

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and then that's kind

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of how we've been.

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But like, I think

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there's, it comes

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in waves because

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now you want to

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have some high

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production stuff,

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but we can get into

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that in a bit.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And that was like one

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of my next

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questions, like, are

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you still doing some

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high production

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things or is it now

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like purely ugc low,

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low production?

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It depends a lot

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on the brand.

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So if we see that a

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brand has ample UGC

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or ample organic

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type videos and

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maybe we, we think

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that we should try

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something high end

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because it promotes

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a certain desire,

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then we will try it.

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I think overall

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most brands just need

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a lot of

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diversity, a lot of

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different types.

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Because if you go on

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my feed on

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Instagram, there's

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a lot of highly

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produced videos,

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you know,

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filmmaking, high

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production

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commercials, blah,

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blah, blah, blah.

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That's what I like.

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But if you go on to my

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girlfriends, hers is

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like, you know, girls

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on the day vlogging,

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like super low tier.

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So that's where

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you need to have

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both so that

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the high production

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one show

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up on mine

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and the low ones show

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up on hers.

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And so we, it depends

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a lot on the research

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we do for the client

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and whether

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we think it's going

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to be a good fit.

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Yeah, that

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makes sense.

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And which of those

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do you personally

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prefer, like on the

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one side in terms

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of like creating

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them, but then also

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in terms of like

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seeing them,

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watching them?

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Oh, that's

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a good question.

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I think I like to

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make, I like both

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high production ones

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is a lot of work

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because like you have

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to get things, a lot

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of things right,

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lighting and as we

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scale it, we have to

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get teams to do them.

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UGC is a lot easier

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but is very technical

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in the research

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process.

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You have to be very

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technical with what

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words you use, what

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kind of person

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you find, et cetera.

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So there's good

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aspects of both.

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We do, I'd say

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about 70% organic

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type content, 30%

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of the high

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produce stuff.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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And is your goal or is

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your dream still to

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become a YouTuber or

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have you like shifted

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away from, from that?

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Well, weirdly,

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weirdly I became a

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YouTuber because I

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was on, on my main

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channel, I was

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teaching everything

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that I was learning

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and that's.

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And at one point I

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started doing like

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car videos, filming

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cars and then my

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channel exploded.

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So I, I had, you know,

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at One point

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I was getting half

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a million views

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a month for like six

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months straight.

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And it was, it

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was crazy.

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But I kind of, I got

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the play button, as

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you can see, and I

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got a lot of fame

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then I was like, I

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don't really want to

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do car videos.

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Like I kind of

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like doing the E

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commerce stuff.

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I'm getting like

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jobs from the E

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commerce stuff.

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And what I did

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switch it to was

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building my editing

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community, which

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has helped me a lot

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to find good talent

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because I think

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good editing talent

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is really hard.

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But yeah, basically

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became a YouTuber.

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Not like a Mr.

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Beast or like a super

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creator, but YouTube

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is a big part of

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what, what I do

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and it's taken a bit

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of a step back.

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But yeah, I think

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I, I did start

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a new channel

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with the ads for.

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The Ads channel

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for, for getting

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ad clients.

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But yeah, I guess

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hopefully I have

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a second play button.

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Nice.

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That sounds cool.

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Yeah.

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And do you still focus

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on also like growing

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the, the video

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editing community?

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Yeah, yeah.

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It is a, it is a big

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aspect of what we do.

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So I run it with

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a guy called Jack.

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He also has another

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YouTube channel.

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We just started

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running ads to a paid

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product with an

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upsell to the

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community just to

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kind of hit that cold

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traffic because we

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kind of stole that

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our own personal

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brands.

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But so far we have

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about 700 members.

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We have two different

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tiers and we want

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to grow this

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to like a ousand

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member thing plus.

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And this community,

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I assume it helps

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you a lot with like

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creating the,

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the ads for the e

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commerce brands.

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Finding like good,

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good editors.

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Yeah, for sure.

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It really keeps me

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ahead of what I have

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to stay ahead of

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what's working on

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social because we're

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showing editors,

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hey, this is what's

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working.

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This is what you

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need to learn.

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So if I'm very

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behind, then I'm

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telling editor stuff

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that's dated.

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And when I need

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to find talent

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is super easy.

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I just go like most

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of the people that

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I've hired in the

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agency have been

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from VP plus and

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it's, it's mainly

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because these

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people are, you

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know, they, they're

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kind of thankful

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from what we teach

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them.

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Very hard working,

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which is very hard

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sometimes to find

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someone on upwork

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or fiverr who's

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just like dedicated

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to be a good editor

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and really hone

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their craft.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And I totally get

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like, like a lot

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of brands are really

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struggling with like

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finding high quality

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editors, creators,

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all of those things.

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And you have a huge

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advantage there just

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on the one hand

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because you have huge

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following and also

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have like the.

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The authority but also

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a lot of people like

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following you who are

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interested in that.

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But then also you have

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the community where

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you can just

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basically pick the

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best editors and then

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ask them whether they

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want to work with you

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together.

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For sure.

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Yeah.

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Absolutely.

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Awesome.

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But now let's get more

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into the E commerce

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side of things.

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I mean you worked

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with a lot of huge

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E commerce brands

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and helped them

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with their creatives

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nowadays.

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What would you say?

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What do you see in

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terms of the mistakes

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that a lot of

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brands are making?

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Like why are there.

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Yeah.

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What is wrong

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with their creative

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strategy?

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I think it.

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I guess it depends

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how you define

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the strategy because

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there's like there's

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the front end

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and there's

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the back end.

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They both do

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work together.

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So if you have a.

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You have a very good

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ad but a terrible

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landing page

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doesn't matter.

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It still shows up as

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no conversions

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on the ad account.

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But let's.

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If you focus mostly

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on the attention

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acquisition part

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of the the of

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the creative strategy

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it would be.

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A lot of brands

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think that people.

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They assume people

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care about them

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in the beginning

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so they would.

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They'll.

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They'll do things

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like generic

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messaging or care

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about their brand

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logo and image

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not

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realizing that.0001

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of the population is

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seeing their stuff.

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They think that oh

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they're going to

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spend this much like

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5k on ad spend.

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They think that it's

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going to be a lot

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of people to see it.

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But that's not

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really the case.

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Maybe the impressions

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kind of

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give them that.

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That idea.

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So I think the biggest

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issue is that

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they don't focus

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on the customer.

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They don't focus on

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who they're serving

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because everybody's

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self interested.

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Everyone cares about

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what was in it.

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For me you know

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if I see a jewelry

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brand and the content

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they're making is

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it's just talking

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about how

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it's waterproof.

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It's like that's only.

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Only people that care

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about waterproof

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jewelry are going

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to watch that.

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But if someone just

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cares about designs

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or to feel good or

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for status seeking

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scroll past and so

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they'll try that

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message because

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that's what they

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think is the USP of

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their business.

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People don't

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really care.

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And so what I think

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most brands need to

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do is really care

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about what that

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customers and

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potential customers

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care about at

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different stages of

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the marketing

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sophistication

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level.

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Yeah.

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And how do do you

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or how do the brands

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find that out?

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A lot of research.

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Our biggest lever

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that we pull is how

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we do the research.

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So how we find angles,

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ideas, things

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people say, we find

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what humans say.

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So people in the

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comment section, on

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forums, reviews, one

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star reviews tell you

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everything that you

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need to know about a

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product, especially

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in, in the competitor

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brands.

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Because some people

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might choose to go to

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a different brand

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because they left a

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one star review

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saying oh, I didn't

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like the fact that

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this product did

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this, blah blah,

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blah.

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So going from that

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kind of information

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is good.

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And then I would say

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that's about 60,

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70% of a strategy.

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The other 30 is

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just taking swings,

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just like

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trying something

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new, just trying

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something you saw

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from a different

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industry,

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a different niche.

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We, we like to find

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things that work

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in a specific niche

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and then try to find

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things that work

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in adjacent niches.

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So say you're,

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you're a collagen

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supplement brand.

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We will find things

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that work for other

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collagen products

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and competitors.

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But we'll also see

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what happens, what

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works in the protein

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shake supplements,

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in the creatine

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supplements.

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And then we also

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look at maybe like

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green tea or some

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other stuff, see

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what works for them

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and then see how we

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can implement and

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remix it.

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So I would say

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those are the two

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things that most

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brands don't do.

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They just put a

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bunch of stuff they

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think is going to

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work or they just

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copy somebody else

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and then they're

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like why is this

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not working?

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Yeah.

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And do you have like

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a specific framework

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that you follow

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when it comes to like

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testing those, those

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different angles

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or pain points?

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Does it really like

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depend on, on each

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individual case?

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So we do have some

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winning angles and

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creatives that, that

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we will, let's call

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it, repurpose with

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the information that

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we get from the

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research.

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So let's say, let's

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say we have an ad

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for a, so we

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have, we have

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a luxury calculator.

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Okay.

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And we have winning

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concepts for other

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tech products.

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We will find them,

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we will obviously

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remix it and use

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the research for this

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mainly, mainly based

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on the concept idea.

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So whether it's going

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to be, I don't know,

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a street interview or

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it's a pain agitate

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pain or it's a desire

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driven type creative.

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And then what goes

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in it, what people

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say, what words are

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used, what copy comes

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from the research.

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Yeah, that

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makes sense.

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And you already

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briefly touched on

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the branded branding

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ads aspect versus

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what I would think,

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what I would say is

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more like the direct

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response approach

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where you would call

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out the pain, call

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out something

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specifically.

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What is your

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take on that?

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Are there cases where

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brands should do more

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Branding or branded

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ads and direct

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response or is it all

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direct response?

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No, there is a case

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for sure.

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I think brands that

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need to focus on

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branding, logos and

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all that stuff come

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when you hit a

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certain amount of

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spend and a certain

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size because

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branding, ultimately

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good branding really

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lowers your cost of

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advertising because

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somebody will come

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back because they

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like the brand or

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somebody will hear

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about the brand or

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did you hear about

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like, like Udi for

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example?

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That's a very

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good brand.

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Like you know it, you,

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you've heard it, you

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know, it's something

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that people have.

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You will see that same

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product in different

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brands but you call,

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call it an Oodie.

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The same thing as like

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here we have like

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a type of vacuum,

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it's called a Henry.

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So like, like we,

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that's super

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strong branding.

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Like even something

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that looks remotely

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like it, you'd be

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like, that's a Henry.

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So I, I would say only

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focus on branding if

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it's, if you've hit

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and you've proven a

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market fit with

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direct response, you

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can be profitable and

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then you can spend

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money on branding and

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you can spend money

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on creative that is

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more brand

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orientated, that is

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maybe more for maybe

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you don't get the

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highest cost per

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result, the highest

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roas, but it's there.

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So people can kind

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of like McDonald's

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put these

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signs everywhere.

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It's just to remind

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you that they

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exist, that

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they're, they are.

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So what would the big,

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the bigger brands do?

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Like it works

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for them.

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You know, you get

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reminded that oh

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yeah, I could eat

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McDonald's, I'm going

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to love it.

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Yeah, totally agree

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with that.

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I mean we also work

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with brands from all

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sizes pretty much.

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And I notice back

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in the days I

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used to think that

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direct response

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is the only way

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to go and that's

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what every

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brand should do.

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And I was always

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thinking that

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if Nike, if Apple,

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if they would do more

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direct response,

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they would have

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better results.

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But now I slowly

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start to realize

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that at a certain

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point, at a certain

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stage it just makes

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sense to go with a,

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with a branded

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approach.

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Yeah, but I think most

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brands overestimate

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it and do it too

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early, too quickly.

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Agree.

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I notice that

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especially with like

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the, the smallest

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brands or the

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smallest clients that

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we, that we work with

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that they usually put

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way more focus and

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attention on that all

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the creatives look on

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brand and look nice

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and have the logo.

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When in their case

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they shouldn't care

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about that at all.

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Like for them

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they should focus

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everything on

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getting conversions,

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getting

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sales, proving

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what works and just

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testing out

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what works.

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But after you've

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reached a certain

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point, then it also

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makes sense too.

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Yeah, I think it comes

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down to can you

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afford branding

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because it's

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expensive, because

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it's reminding people

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of, of your specific

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business and how they

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should act towards

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it.

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And then I think it

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also comes down to

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how unique is your

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product, where it has

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to have a good brand

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because, you know,

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everyone knows about

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dropshipping.

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Everybody can

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find the same

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person, the same

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manufacturer.

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If you manage to take

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a product like say

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this calculator and

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then you install chat

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GPT API into it and

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you're the only one

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that's done that, you

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know, being branded

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as one of the first

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or the second ones to

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do that is, is the

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most important thing

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that you can do.

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Maybe an early, early

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stage, but I think

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it's really rare.

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It only happens

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to those brands

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that can rely on

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its uniqueness.

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Yeah, I agree.

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And now let's say

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you, you work with a

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brand and you test a

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bunch of creatives,

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do a lot of like,

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different

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variations, angles,

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scripts, whatever,

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and nothing works.

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Like, nothing,

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nothing gets results.

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How do you know

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whether it's

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like an issue

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with the creatives

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or whether it's

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the product,

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the website,

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the offer?

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Yeah, great question.

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So we will look at

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different metrics.

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If we've tried all

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the creatives that

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we thought were

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going to work and it

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didn't, we would

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look at conversion

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rates from ad to

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site and kind of see

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if that's the issue,

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how many add to

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cards but no

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purchases.

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Maybe get some Shopify

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stats as well

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and then we'll see.

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Maybe, maybe the ad

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isn't aligning

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with the website.

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Maybe there's

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something

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on the website

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and the offer doesn't

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look good enough.

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Maybe it's

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AOV problem, maybe

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the AOV is too low or

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maybe it's too high

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for what it is.

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And then we kind

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of compare that

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with what we see

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from other,

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other brands do.

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On the creative side,

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we will look at.

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Okay, is it that

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these ads just

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the hook rates suck?

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Is it that people

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aren't watching it?

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Is it that it's not

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getting any clicks?

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There's a lot of

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metrics you look at.

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Typically, I

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believe that there's

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no wasted ad

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spend because you

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still get data.

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You still get data

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whether it's good or

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whether it's bad.

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So we just take that

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and we kind of model

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it and we look at

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what went wrong,

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what we try next,

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and then we'll

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iterate and then if

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again it's ran, it

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doesn't work then

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there's some other

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issue going on that

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we have to look at.

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Kind of like I said,

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you have the front

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end and the back

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end so they have to

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work together.

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Yeah.

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And are there also

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cases where you

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support the brands

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with the back end

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or you tell them

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the offer doesn't

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work, the page

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doesn't work?

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Yeah.

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I mean I'm not

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a CRO expert

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and typically I would

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recommend other CRO

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people for it

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just because I know

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they'll be the best

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at it.

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But I can make

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recommendations as

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to like look your

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AOV needs to be

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higher or you only

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have what you only

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sell in one product

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and you can maybe

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add a bundle.

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Is there something

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that we can do?

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Is it.

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Can you put the two

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best selling

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products together

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and make a bundle

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that typically

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huge swings.

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Or maybe we just

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say your prices

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is too low.

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Like there's like

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five of the brands,

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they are way

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more expensive.

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With the right

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ads they come

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into your site.

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Like we can probably

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make this work

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a lot better.

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So we do provide

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some recommendations.

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Yeah.

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Nice.

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Yeah that makes sense.

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And let's say you

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could only look at

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three metrics

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when you're analyzing

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creatives.

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Like which ones

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would you look at?

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Oosh.

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Three metrics

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probably cost per

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result I guess at

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what stage of, of

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the of the business

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is it at?

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Because I was gonna

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think definitely

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a click through

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rate but it depends

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what stage the click

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through rate.

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So say it's just

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like early testing.

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I'll just look at

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click through rate

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all because I will

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tell you is anybody

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even clicking on, on

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the, on the video

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opening the comments

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like there's

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anything with the ad

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or the interacting.

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If it's later like

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a highest scaling

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stage I'll look at

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you know, unique

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outbound click

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through rate instead.

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But so it'll probably

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be cost per result

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click through rate

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and then hook rate

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would be the three

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I think are the most.

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You had to only

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choose three.

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But what about

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you like cause you,

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you run a lot

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of ad accounts.

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What do you look at?

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Great question.

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Just pulling the UNO

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reverse card also

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depends on the brand

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and the stage.

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I would say either

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CPA or return

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on ad spend depending

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on the brand.

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Usually the CPA or

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the cost per new

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customer, cost per

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acquisition, then

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the link click

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through rate and

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the third one if

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it's a video I

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think also the hook

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score or the hook

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rate.

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Yeah.

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If not potentially

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like the CPM or

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the cost per click.

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Yeah but it's tough,

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it's tough to only

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look at three

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metrics because they

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all tell a story,

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you know, that saw a

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specific story that

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it tells.

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Yeah, yeah, it does.

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And when it comes

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to the advertisement,

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like the what

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kind of styles

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of creatives

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do you recommend or

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do you implement

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for brands?

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Because we have like

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ugc, we have statics,

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we have founders

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ads, expert ads,

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influencer ads.

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Like, what do you see

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work best and has

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like the, the highest

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ROI on average?

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I think it depends

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a lot on the stage

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of the brand.

Speaker:

Let's say you're a 0

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to 10k a month brand.

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You wanna, the most

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important thing is

Speaker:

you want to see what

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works in terms of

Speaker:

the messaging.

Speaker:

What's the message

Speaker:

that say.

Speaker:

You're saying

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a supplement brand,

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your supplement brand

Speaker:

for women

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to reduce bloating.

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Is it that I hate

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how bloating looks?

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I have bloating feels.

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Is it that I want

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to go to a toilet

Speaker:

more often?

Speaker:

I don't know like

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which is

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the messaging first?

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I think that's

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the first,

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the first step.

Speaker:

And you can do that

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with, you know,

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a handful of UGC

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concepts, make

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it really easy.

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I would say, you know,

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10k to 50k a month.

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Plus if you're a brand

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that has a strong

Speaker:

founder, you

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definitely need some

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founder ads.

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I see that as a way

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to build

Speaker:

a cult following.

Speaker:

Build.

Speaker:

There's a lot of

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people that resonate

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these days with a lot

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of authenticity,

Speaker:

especially in ads.

Speaker:

And they're looking

Speaker:

for those ads that

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are, oh, here's the,

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here's the founder.

Speaker:

He's getting on camera

Speaker:

like he's talking

Speaker:

about this.

Speaker:

I want to follow that.

Speaker:

I want to, I resonate

Speaker:

with this especially

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in this day and age,

Speaker:

which is a lot

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more entrepreneurial.

Speaker:

So I'll say I would

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definitely put

Speaker:

founder ads in,

Speaker:

in that stage.

Speaker:

Statics are always

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really good

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for the bottom

Speaker:

of the funnel.

Speaker:

Although we have

Speaker:

had one ad account

Speaker:

scale ridiculously

Speaker:

with one static ad,

Speaker:

it does depend

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on the product.

Speaker:

I would say

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for ugc, I think UGC

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is too generic.

Speaker:

I think there's a,

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there's the type

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of UGC you use

Speaker:

because you can have

Speaker:

like a video sales

Speaker:

letter type ugc.

Speaker:

We take somebody from

Speaker:

generic like unaware

Speaker:

stage down to like

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super aware stage.

Speaker:

So I think you'll

Speaker:

have to categorize,

Speaker:

categorize

Speaker:

it based on,

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on the awareness

Speaker:

stage and then

Speaker:

the kind of concepts

Speaker:

that you do.

Speaker:

I think three

Speaker:

interviews work

Speaker:

really well.

Speaker:

They're very good

Speaker:

type of creative.

Speaker:

We have had really

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good success

Speaker:

with a few of them.

Speaker:

I think, I mean AI

Speaker:

voiceovers with

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the right visuals

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can cook really well.

Speaker:

I'M a big fan of

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those, especially

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once we know

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the messaging.

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And then I would say

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higher produced type

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content works well

Speaker:

for educational

Speaker:

products that need,

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they need education.

Speaker:

Like if you're, if

Speaker:

you're like a tech

Speaker:

product, like you

Speaker:

need something that

Speaker:

looks really

Speaker:

pristine, clean, but

Speaker:

also explains the

Speaker:

techie stuff for

Speaker:

those people that are

Speaker:

techie.

Speaker:

So I, I really,

Speaker:

that's always, that's

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what we say.

Speaker:

Hyper targeted ad

Speaker:

creatives,

Speaker:

because they have

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to be targeted.

Speaker:

The content does

Speaker:

the targeting.

Speaker:

The, the media

Speaker:

buying is like,

Speaker:

I'd say like 30.

Speaker:

Because if you have

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bad media buying, it

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still makes, it makes

Speaker:

a huge impact.

Speaker:

But you only get

Speaker:

so much if you

Speaker:

have terrible

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creative because

Speaker:

if you, if

Speaker:

you put the wrong

Speaker:

target in, it's

Speaker:

not gonna.

Speaker:

The wrong creative,

Speaker:

the wrong targeting

Speaker:

in the creative

Speaker:

is just not

Speaker:

going to work.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And how important do

Speaker:

you think is the

Speaker:

communication

Speaker:

between the media

Speaker:

buyers and the

Speaker:

creative team?

Speaker:

Or should it be

Speaker:

the same person or

Speaker:

the same team working

Speaker:

on both of those or.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

How to ensure

Speaker:

the best results?

Speaker:

I think a media buyer

Speaker:

who understands

Speaker:

creative is

Speaker:

going to be

Speaker:

an absolute killer.

Speaker:

So a media buyer who

Speaker:

understands like

Speaker:

this video would do

Speaker:

well because I saw it

Speaker:

work in another

Speaker:

account or whatever.

Speaker:

That would be

Speaker:

the ultimate Gigachad

Speaker:

level of marketer.

Speaker:

I do think a happy

Speaker:

medium is you have

Speaker:

the creative team,

Speaker:

you have the media

Speaker:

buying team.

Speaker:

They meet once a

Speaker:

week, they tell us

Speaker:

what's working,

Speaker:

they tell us what

Speaker:

they think, we tell

Speaker:

you what we think

Speaker:

and we come up with

Speaker:

a plan.

Speaker:

I think that's

Speaker:

the best

Speaker:

happy medium.

Speaker:

But we have worked

Speaker:

with some brands

Speaker:

who the media

Speaker:

buyers were doing

Speaker:

stuff that only

Speaker:

worked in 2018 and

Speaker:

it makes our

Speaker:

creative look bad.

Speaker:

So we started making

Speaker:

a creative

Speaker:

testing playbook.

Speaker:

So it's just

Speaker:

everything that we've

Speaker:

learned from our

Speaker:

experience and other

Speaker:

media buyers, even

Speaker:

stuff that you have

Speaker:

taught me, I've

Speaker:

written that in the

Speaker:

playbook so just so

Speaker:

we can cover all the

Speaker:

bases.

Speaker:

Nice.

Speaker:

Yeah, that

Speaker:

makes sense.

Speaker:

And I mean,

Speaker:

I assume it's very

Speaker:

frustrating if you

Speaker:

have like very, very

Speaker:

good creatives

Speaker:

or you, you.

Speaker:

Yeah, you create a

Speaker:

bunch of creatives

Speaker:

and then you see

Speaker:

that the, the media

Speaker:

buyers are just

Speaker:

messing everything

Speaker:

up and they're using

Speaker:

like outdated

Speaker:

strategies or not.

Speaker:

You're not using

Speaker:

the creatives

Speaker:

the right way.

Speaker:

Now the worst is

Speaker:

when they shut down

Speaker:

the creative

Speaker:

because the one

Speaker:

that got the most

Speaker:

spend didn't get

Speaker:

any results and the

Speaker:

other ones didn't

Speaker:

get any spend yet.

Speaker:

I'm just like, why do

Speaker:

we do all of this.

Speaker:

Yeah, I know

Speaker:

that feeling.

Speaker:

But yeah, no,

Speaker:

that's great.

Speaker:

And I'm curious to

Speaker:

hear your thoughts

Speaker:

on creative fatigue

Speaker:

because I know that

Speaker:

some of our clients,

Speaker:

they're very, very

Speaker:

afraid of creative

Speaker:

fatigue and they in

Speaker:

my opinion, want us

Speaker:

to turn off ads too

Speaker:

quickly because the

Speaker:

performance of the

Speaker:

ads is still.

Speaker:

The performance is

Speaker:

great, but they think

Speaker:

that everyone has

Speaker:

already seen the ad

Speaker:

in the target

Speaker:

audience and they are

Speaker:

really, really afraid

Speaker:

of annoying someone

Speaker:

and they don't want

Speaker:

the same person to

Speaker:

see an ad multiple

Speaker:

times and therefore

Speaker:

want to turn it off.

Speaker:

And then we have

Speaker:

clients on the other

Speaker:

extreme that just

Speaker:

don't provide enough

Speaker:

content, not focused

Speaker:

enough on creatives

Speaker:

and having enough

Speaker:

assets where we just

Speaker:

have to use the same

Speaker:

creatives for

Speaker:

multiple months,

Speaker:

sometimes even a year

Speaker:

of using the same

Speaker:

videos and just like

Speaker:

repurposing as much

Speaker:

as we can.

Speaker:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker:

So what are your

Speaker:

thoughts on, on that?

Speaker:

I think, I think

Speaker:

the first one I think

Speaker:

is a limiting belief.

Speaker:

I don't think you're

Speaker:

going to saturate

Speaker:

a whole market.

Speaker:

I think every market

Speaker:

has sub segments

Speaker:

and I don't like.

Speaker:

I think it's fine if

Speaker:

you have a frequency

Speaker:

of above 2.

Speaker:

I think it's fine

Speaker:

because we

Speaker:

have seen some

Speaker:

ads are still

Speaker:

profitable with

Speaker:

frequency of like

Speaker:

2.8 or something

Speaker:

ridiculous.

Speaker:

I think it's

Speaker:

comes down to it's

Speaker:

a creative problem.

Speaker:

Like if you're afraid

Speaker:

of ad fatigue, just

Speaker:

make more ads so that

Speaker:

you can and make more

Speaker:

angles and change it

Speaker:

up so that if I don't

Speaker:

think anybody gets

Speaker:

annoyed when they see

Speaker:

a fresh take of

Speaker:

something, I don't

Speaker:

think so.

Speaker:

And I think, you

Speaker:

know, if, if ad

Speaker:

fatigue was, was as

Speaker:

scary as they make

Speaker:

it seem, then every

Speaker:

single brand would,

Speaker:

would be having

Speaker:

those catastrophic

Speaker:

problems.

Speaker:

But in reality is the

Speaker:

brands are

Speaker:

continuously

Speaker:

iterating on

Speaker:

creative and just,

Speaker:

you know, just

Speaker:

making sure that the

Speaker:

metrics stay good

Speaker:

and don't have that

Speaker:

limiting belief.

Speaker:

Do the best.

Speaker:

I think for people

Speaker:

that don't make

Speaker:

new creative like

Speaker:

they're just miss.

Speaker:

They're leaving a lot

Speaker:

of money on the table

Speaker:

because you

Speaker:

know, if it's just.

Speaker:

I think that's worse

Speaker:

because you're not

Speaker:

allowing other people

Speaker:

who consume content

Speaker:

in a different way

Speaker:

to see that stuff.

Speaker:

I see content as

Speaker:

more like, like

Speaker:

a slot machine token

Speaker:

and but the token

Speaker:

works on different

Speaker:

slot machines

Speaker:

and say you have

Speaker:

a static.

Speaker:

That's like one token.

Speaker:

You put that on one

Speaker:

slot machine and you

Speaker:

can win 0 to 10k in

Speaker:

dollars and then you

Speaker:

have the other one.

Speaker:

And you can have

Speaker:

a different

Speaker:

amount of earnings.

Speaker:

It just depends on

Speaker:

the machine you use

Speaker:

from the tokens.

Speaker:

Yeah, that

Speaker:

makes sense.

Speaker:

And how do you kind of

Speaker:

find the balance

Speaker:

between reiterating

Speaker:

what already works or

Speaker:

angles, ads, scripts,

Speaker:

whatever, that have

Speaker:

already proven

Speaker:

themselves to work

Speaker:

versus testing

Speaker:

completely new

Speaker:

things?

Speaker:

Yeah, that's.

Speaker:

That's a very

Speaker:

good question.

Speaker:

That's something

Speaker:

that we still

Speaker:

work a lot on.

Speaker:

I would say at the

Speaker:

moment it's about

Speaker:

30% of stuff is

Speaker:

fresh, new swings

Speaker:

that we, the

Speaker:

creative team, just

Speaker:

like have that, oh,

Speaker:

what if we try this?

Speaker:

But the majority

Speaker:

of stuff is

Speaker:

don't reinvent the.

Speaker:

Don't reinvent

Speaker:

the wheel.

Speaker:

Try something

Speaker:

that's worked.

Speaker:

We just know

Speaker:

the research is going

Speaker:

to do a lot of

Speaker:

the heavy lifting.

Speaker:

Because what we really

Speaker:

want is somebody

Speaker:

to look at an ad

Speaker:

and have that feeling

Speaker:

that Facebook is

Speaker:

spying on them.

Speaker:

They're like, how

Speaker:

do they know I

Speaker:

have that problem?

Speaker:

Like, how is it?

Speaker:

That's what we want.

Speaker:

And when we take

Speaker:

new swings, we have

Speaker:

to make sure we're

Speaker:

using the context

Speaker:

and the research

Speaker:

really well.

Speaker:

It's just how we

Speaker:

demonstrate it.

Speaker:

So for some brands,

Speaker:

a brand new

Speaker:

swing might be

Speaker:

taste testing

Speaker:

different toothpastes

Speaker:

or rather than

Speaker:

just doing what

Speaker:

everybody else

Speaker:

is doing.

Speaker:

And it's just

Speaker:

someone talking about

Speaker:

why it's so good

Speaker:

and why I replaced

Speaker:

my old one.

Speaker:

And when it comes to

Speaker:

the budget, do you

Speaker:

have any ballpark

Speaker:

or recommendation?

Speaker:

How much percentage

Speaker:

you would like for a

Speaker:

brand to spend on

Speaker:

stuff that they

Speaker:

already know that

Speaker:

works, and how much

Speaker:

should they spend on

Speaker:

testing completely

Speaker:

new things?

Speaker:

That's a good

Speaker:

question, actually.

Speaker:

So I would say if

Speaker:

you're less than 10k

Speaker:

a month, hundred to

Speaker:

$150 a day minimum,

Speaker:

you can test that

Speaker:

between like 20

Speaker:

creatives, 20

Speaker:

different creative

Speaker:

angles.

Speaker:

It's not the best

Speaker:

because you're,

Speaker:

you are diluting.

Speaker:

But I know that some

Speaker:

brands are starting

Speaker:

very small.

Speaker:

So I would say you

Speaker:

start there and I

Speaker:

would say maybe,

Speaker:

probably keep it.

Speaker:

70, 30, 70% of your

Speaker:

spend goes to things

Speaker:

you know it's gonna

Speaker:

work and it's proven.

Speaker:

And then the other

Speaker:

30% will go into

Speaker:

testing new things.

Speaker:

And if obviously

Speaker:

something new that we

Speaker:

tested works really

Speaker:

well, you can

Speaker:

graduate that to

Speaker:

a scaling campaign.

Speaker:

And you know,

Speaker:

that's, that's good.

Speaker:

It just depends on.

Speaker:

That's like more

Speaker:

of like what

Speaker:

you would do.

Speaker:

That's your

Speaker:

speciality.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

I mean, it, it also

Speaker:

depends on how much

Speaker:

you already have.

Speaker:

That works.

Speaker:

Like, obviously if

Speaker:

you're just starting

Speaker:

out, you don't have

Speaker:

anything that works.

Speaker:

And you obviously have

Speaker:

to spend the majority

Speaker:

on, like,

Speaker:

testing new things.

Speaker:

But once you're at a

Speaker:

point where you have

Speaker:

a bunch of ads or

Speaker:

angles that you just

Speaker:

know that they work,

Speaker:

then it definitely

Speaker:

makes sense, as you

Speaker:

mentioned, to have

Speaker:

like 70, 80% of the

Speaker:

budget towards what

Speaker:

works, but then

Speaker:

still make sure that

Speaker:

you spend at least

Speaker:

like 20 to 30% on

Speaker:

testing new things.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Because otherwise,

Speaker:

at some point,

Speaker:

the things

Speaker:

that you that

Speaker:

you know, that

Speaker:

work, they will

Speaker:

saturate or

Speaker:

they will fatigue.

Speaker:

And if you don't test

Speaker:

new things, you'll

Speaker:

never know when

Speaker:

you're able to find

Speaker:

something better

Speaker:

and something new.

Speaker:

I agree.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah, 100%.

Speaker:

And I mean, nowadays,

Speaker:

especially in the

Speaker:

last couple of months

Speaker:

or one, two years, a

Speaker:

lot of things are

Speaker:

changing with AI and

Speaker:

with, like, fake UGC

Speaker:

creators, AI

Speaker:

generated creators,

Speaker:

AI generated ads.

Speaker:

How are you seeing

Speaker:

that trend moving

Speaker:

forward and how are

Speaker:

you kind of like,

Speaker:

adapting to that?

Speaker:

This is a great

Speaker:

question.

Speaker:

Very.

Speaker:

There's a lot of buzz

Speaker:

about this right now.

Speaker:

I'll just tell you

Speaker:

my entire experience,

Speaker:

just flat out.

Speaker:

So we have tried a lot

Speaker:

of AI U GC, a lot

Speaker:

of that ChatGPT image

Speaker:

to Sora Video person

Speaker:

holding the product.

Speaker:

It is a very much

Speaker:

hit or miss.

Speaker:

Like, we have had

Speaker:

some ads that are

Speaker:

just doing really

Speaker:

well, and we're

Speaker:

like, this is great.

Speaker:

But also we edited

Speaker:

them in a way

Speaker:

where any.

Speaker:

At any point it

Speaker:

looks fake.

Speaker:

There's a cut or

Speaker:

there's some B roll

Speaker:

or there's something.

Speaker:

Because the majority

Speaker:

of people, what they

Speaker:

do is they just.

Speaker:

They go to, let's say,

Speaker:

arcads, they get

Speaker:

the AI ugc, put

Speaker:

a caption, post it,

Speaker:

and they're like, why

Speaker:

is it not working?

Speaker:

It's like, well,

Speaker:

because it looks

Speaker:

too much like AI

Speaker:

right now, so.

Speaker:

Or they try the AI

Speaker:

video stuff

Speaker:

and they're like, why

Speaker:

isn't it working?

Speaker:

It's like, well,

Speaker:

because

Speaker:

it still looks too

Speaker:

much like AI.

Speaker:

So you still have to

Speaker:

take that footage and

Speaker:

you still have to

Speaker:

edit it in a way,

Speaker:

have good pacing,

Speaker:

make it look as raw,

Speaker:

organic, or make it

Speaker:

look as polished as

Speaker:

you need to.

Speaker:

So you have to be

Speaker:

very careful with

Speaker:

that because

Speaker:

obviously some

Speaker:

people, not just

Speaker:

boomers, will see

Speaker:

an AI video and go,

Speaker:

oh, this is real,

Speaker:

or, oh, this is

Speaker:

fake.

Speaker:

It can happen

Speaker:

on both sides.

Speaker:

But I would say we've

Speaker:

had some winners

Speaker:

from it, but they

Speaker:

haven't scaled.

Speaker:

Like, they've got some

Speaker:

cool results, you

Speaker:

know, purchases or

Speaker:

whatever, but none

Speaker:

of them have really

Speaker:

scaled past what

Speaker:

a real human does.

Speaker:

In my opinion,

Speaker:

the future

Speaker:

is not an AI.

Speaker:

UGC versus Real.

Speaker:

UGC or AI versus

Speaker:

Real, I think is.

Speaker:

It's.

Speaker:

It's an and not an or.

Speaker:

In my opinion, I think

Speaker:

nothing will be

Speaker:

a human being who can

Speaker:

do a challenge video

Speaker:

or go and speak to

Speaker:

other human beings.

Speaker:

And I think most

Speaker:

humans seek that

Speaker:

human interaction

Speaker:

and seeing another

Speaker:

human on the other

Speaker:

side, even if the AI

Speaker:

gets really good, I

Speaker:

think people will

Speaker:

create that.

Speaker:

Also, I think there'll

Speaker:

be regulations.

Speaker:

I think, you know,

Speaker:

something bad will

Speaker:

happen where

Speaker:

there's the need to

Speaker:

have regulations.

Speaker:

And I think

Speaker:

the majority of

Speaker:

the time AI UGC will

Speaker:

be used for testing.

Speaker:

So you have like,

Speaker:

hey, let's do a round

Speaker:

of AI tests,

Speaker:

find the messaging.

Speaker:

Great.

Speaker:

We've saved ourselves

Speaker:

on costs

Speaker:

for creators.

Speaker:

Now we know this is

Speaker:

working, let's

Speaker:

use the creators.

Speaker:

Now we know

Speaker:

the creators are

Speaker:

working, let's do

Speaker:

some whitelisting.

Speaker:

Now we know

Speaker:

whitelisting is

Speaker:

working,

Speaker:

let's do brand.

Speaker:

That's probably

Speaker:

the process that

Speaker:

will work.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

So you think

Speaker:

creators will still

Speaker:

have a job?

Speaker:

I think so.

Speaker:

I think it'll

Speaker:

be competitive.

Speaker:

I think what it will

Speaker:

do is the same thing

Speaker:

will happen to them.

Speaker:

What's happening

Speaker:

to video editors

Speaker:

right now?

Speaker:

Like three years ago,

Speaker:

you can be an average

Speaker:

video editor doing

Speaker:

Alex Ramosi captions.

Speaker:

Now you can't.

Speaker:

There's an AI

Speaker:

that does it.

Speaker:

Sub magic

Speaker:

insert AI software

Speaker:

that does it.

Speaker:

You have to be

Speaker:

a story, a visual

Speaker:

storyteller.

Speaker:

You have to get good.

Speaker:

You have to

Speaker:

increase your skill

Speaker:

as an editor.

Speaker:

You have to know

Speaker:

when to cut, what

Speaker:

footage to use.

Speaker:

It doesn't.

Speaker:

It can't look

Speaker:

like a bot.

Speaker:

Edited this.

Speaker:

And I think the same

Speaker:

thing with ugc.

Speaker:

If a UGC creator looks

Speaker:

too much like a bot

Speaker:

and it's just saying

Speaker:

things that sound too

Speaker:

much like ads,

Speaker:

why would I use you?

Speaker:

I should use somebody

Speaker:

who looks more

Speaker:

organic or is a good

Speaker:

storyteller, has

Speaker:

a good presence.

Speaker:

I think creators

Speaker:

will have jobs.

Speaker:

It'd just be more

Speaker:

competitive

Speaker:

and harder for you to

Speaker:

stand out and harder

Speaker:

for you to

Speaker:

just be average.

Speaker:

Way harder.

Speaker:

Yeah, yeah, I agree

Speaker:

with that.

Speaker:

And I also think that

Speaker:

AI will obviously

Speaker:

become better

Speaker:

and better over

Speaker:

the next couple of

Speaker:

months and years.

Speaker:

And at some point

Speaker:

it will be very,

Speaker:

very difficult to

Speaker:

distinguish a real

Speaker:

human being versus

Speaker:

an AI avatar.

Speaker:

But I think

Speaker:

in the near future,

Speaker:

it will be primarily

Speaker:

useful for testing

Speaker:

a lot of things.

Speaker:

Just because even if

Speaker:

you don't have a huge

Speaker:

budget if you don't

Speaker:

have a lot of

Speaker:

creators, you can

Speaker:

just spin up some ads

Speaker:

and test like 20, 30,

Speaker:

50 different hooks,

Speaker:

different pain

Speaker:

points, different

Speaker:

messaging, and just

Speaker:

see what at least

Speaker:

resonates a little

Speaker:

bit better, a little

Speaker:

bit more, and then

Speaker:

use that as a

Speaker:

guideline to create

Speaker:

real ads or to hire

Speaker:

creators.

Speaker:

Yeah, but also think

Speaker:

about this, right?

Speaker:

How would you

Speaker:

feel if Nike did

Speaker:

an AI UGC ad?

Speaker:

Depends how it

Speaker:

looks like.

Speaker:

I mean, on the one

Speaker:

hand it would be

Speaker:

weird because they

Speaker:

can afford it.

Speaker:

I think Coca Cola did

Speaker:

this one really bad

Speaker:

one where they got

Speaker:

completely roasted

Speaker:

and ripped apart.

Speaker:

Exactly.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

I think if you get

Speaker:

to that we talked

Speaker:

about earlier, that's

Speaker:

that branding stage.

Speaker:

Like, why are

Speaker:

you doing like.

Speaker:

I think AI is.

Speaker:

It's more of a means

Speaker:

to solve the problem,

Speaker:

which is advertising

Speaker:

is expensive.

Speaker:

Let's do a cheap

Speaker:

way to test it.

Speaker:

And I think it will

Speaker:

be associated with

Speaker:

maybe brands that are

Speaker:

like early stages,

Speaker:

if they get caught

Speaker:

or if it's.

Speaker:

It was too obvious.

Speaker:

But I think, yeah,

Speaker:

like how Coca

Speaker:

Cola got roasted

Speaker:

completely, you know,

Speaker:

you'd almost

Speaker:

be like, why?

Speaker:

What are you doing?

Speaker:

Just pay somebody.

Speaker:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker:

I think moving

Speaker:

forward, it will be

Speaker:

more interesting

Speaker:

if brands

Speaker:

use AI, but then

Speaker:

they also, like,

Speaker:

show that it's

Speaker:

AI generated.

Speaker:

Or maybe they

Speaker:

will have to do

Speaker:

it and there will

Speaker:

be like,

Speaker:

restrictions where

Speaker:

they have to

Speaker:

say that it's AI

Speaker:

generated.

Speaker:

But I think you could

Speaker:

create like really

Speaker:

cool ads by mixing

Speaker:

AI stuff and real

Speaker:

stuff and just using

Speaker:

the different

Speaker:

facets, but not just

Speaker:

completely using AI

Speaker:

to try to recreate

Speaker:

something that a

Speaker:

creator could do.

Speaker:

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker:

Like something cool.

Speaker:

Put a shoe in

Speaker:

a cool environment.

Speaker:

Or if you're selling,

Speaker:

I don't know,

Speaker:

like a baseball bat,

Speaker:

make the fire go

Speaker:

into a ball.

Speaker:

And that's AI And I

Speaker:

think that's fine

Speaker:

because it's fun

Speaker:

and it looks cool.

Speaker:

It's going to

Speaker:

allow you to be more

Speaker:

creative with

Speaker:

the content.

Speaker:

As you know, CGI

Speaker:

exists and we see ads

Speaker:

with CGI and we don't

Speaker:

go a cgi, that sucks.

Speaker:

The CGI is good.

Speaker:

We go, oh, that's

Speaker:

a really cool ad.

Speaker:

I love how they

Speaker:

did that.

Speaker:

So I think it would

Speaker:

just make the barrier

Speaker:

to entry for a lot of

Speaker:

brands a lot easier.

Speaker:

I think we are

Speaker:

both way too young

Speaker:

for that.

Speaker:

But do you think when

Speaker:

movies and the

Speaker:

industry started

Speaker:

using CGI there were

Speaker:

like, people against

Speaker:

that or afraid that

Speaker:

it will make things

Speaker:

not real?

Speaker:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker:

You got to

Speaker:

think about.

Speaker:

I mean, I don't even

Speaker:

know Because I

Speaker:

mean, you've

Speaker:

probably seen a

Speaker:

movie where the CGI

Speaker:

was a bit weird and

Speaker:

you're like, this

Speaker:

looks fake.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And it kind of

Speaker:

tarnishes the,

Speaker:

the image.

Speaker:

But the story is good,

Speaker:

you know, it's

Speaker:

fine, can't complain.

Speaker:

Yeah, agree.

Speaker:

Now the last

Speaker:

question that I

Speaker:

have for you, if

Speaker:

you just could have

Speaker:

one, give one piece

Speaker:

of advice to an E

Speaker:

commerce brand

Speaker:

founder looking to

Speaker:

scale this year

Speaker:

using ads, using

Speaker:

creatives, what

Speaker:

would it be?

Speaker:

Don't look at yourself

Speaker:

as a brand

Speaker:

trying to make

Speaker:

content or make ads.

Speaker:

Look at yourself

Speaker:

as a media

Speaker:

production company

Speaker:

that monetizes

Speaker:

with a product.

Speaker:

I would say that would

Speaker:

be a belief shift

Speaker:

and a perspective

Speaker:

shift.

Speaker:

Like think of

Speaker:

yourself as how Mr.

Speaker:

Beast sells

Speaker:

Feastables.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

Rather than

Speaker:

it's feastables.

Speaker:

Like if you, if you

Speaker:

look at it that way,

Speaker:

then media, which is

Speaker:

the game

Speaker:

currency, is the new.

Speaker:

Sorry, attention is

Speaker:

the new currency.

Speaker:

You have to start

Speaker:

with attention.

Speaker:

So you have to think

Speaker:

about the media,

Speaker:

you know, media

Speaker:

production house.

Speaker:

What you sell though

Speaker:

is your

Speaker:

product or service.

Speaker:

And do you think E

Speaker:

commerce brands

Speaker:

nowadays need to.

Speaker:

Or the founders also

Speaker:

need to build

Speaker:

a personal brand?

Speaker:

Not even they need to,

Speaker:

but I think it helps

Speaker:

immensely, especially

Speaker:

for that kind

Speaker:

of branding aspect.

Speaker:

I think you can get

Speaker:

really far with just

Speaker:

founder led content.

Speaker:

We've seen it a lot

Speaker:

and that's why it's

Speaker:

getting popular.

Speaker:

Because you'd be

Speaker:

like, oh, that's

Speaker:

the guy from, he

Speaker:

was the founder

Speaker:

of this thing.

Speaker:

But I think it, it

Speaker:

that only works

Speaker:

if the product is

Speaker:

unique enough.

Speaker:

I, I don't think it's

Speaker:

gonna, you know, if

Speaker:

there's two candle

Speaker:

candle businesses

Speaker:

and one as a founder

Speaker:

that's like I made a

Speaker:

candle because I

Speaker:

like can, like is

Speaker:

that like you don't

Speaker:

care?

Speaker:

But if it's something

Speaker:

super unique like a,

Speaker:

a drink that has

Speaker:

certain chemicals

Speaker:

that make you sharp

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and whatever that

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hasn't been done

Speaker:

before, then you go,

Speaker:

okay, cool.

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His story was

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he couldn't focus

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and whatever and blah

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blah, blah.

Speaker:

So then you get sold

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into that more.

Speaker:

Yeah, that

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makes sense.

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Awesome.

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Yeah, this was great.

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Really, really

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valuable.

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Thank you.

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Where can people

Speaker:

follow you and get in

Speaker:

touch with you if

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they want to learn

Speaker:

more about you or

Speaker:

about Epic AdSlab?

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I think Twitter

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and YouTube

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are the two

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best platforms.

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Twitter is Cammy Sees

Speaker:

and YouTube is

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Cammy's Ad lab.

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And yeah, I post a lot

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of videos, make

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a lot of tweets.

Speaker:

Thank you, Andre.

Speaker:

Yeah, I'll definitely

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follow you.

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I do follow you,

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but I would

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recommend everyone

Speaker:

to follow you.

Speaker:

Thanks, man.

Speaker:

Appreciate you.

Speaker:

Awesome.

Speaker:

Thank you.

Speaker:

Sweet.

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About the Podcast

Ecom Growth Insider
Real behind-the-scenes strategies from the trenches of scaling DTC brands — with founders, marketers, and growth experts.
If you're a DTC brand founder, CMO, growth marketer, or operator trying to scale your e-commerce business profitably, this podcast is for you.

Hosted by Andrej Tumachowitsch — founder of the growth agency HoloGrowth — this show goes deep on what actually works to grow online brands in today’s ultra-competitive landscape.

We go way beyond generic advice.

Every episode gives you practical, battle-tested insights directly from 7-, 8-, and 9-figure brand founders, top-tier marketers, and agency operators actively working in the trenches.

You’ll learn:
- What separates breakout ecom brands from the ones that plateau
- Paid media strategies that scale on Meta, Google & beyond
- How to use UGC, email, landing pages, and CRO to increase LTV & AOV
- Creative testing frameworks & campaign breakdowns that actually perform
- Smart ways to grow without sacrificing profit margins
- Founder mindsets, systems, and hiring practices that lead to longevity
- And the biggest mistakes brands are making right now (and how to avoid them)

Expect a mix of founder interviews, expert roundtables, solo lessons, and deep dives into what’s working right now in paid acquisition, conversion, and retention.

No fluff. No recycled advice. Just proven strategies to grow your ecommerce brand.

If you're tired of surface-level podcasts and want unfiltered access to the tactics and lessons real brands are using to scale — hit subscribe and join us inside the Ecom Growth Insider.

About your host

Profile picture for Andrej Tumachowitsch

Andrej Tumachowitsch

I'm the founder of HoloGrowth, a performance-driven growth agency helping e-commerce brands scale profitably to 7- and 8-figures through paid ads.

With years of experience in the trenches of DTC growth, I have worked with over 30 brands worldwide – building, optimizing, and scaling their marketing systems.

As the host of the Ecom Growth Insider podcast, I dive deep with top founders, marketers, and growth experts to unpack what’s really working behind the scenes in the DTC space.

My mission? To bring raw, actionable insights that help brand owners scale smarter.