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No Ads. No Funding. No Problem. How Mario Scaled & Exited His Ecom Brand
In this episode of Ecom Growth Insider, I sit down with Mario Lanzarotti — entrepreneur, speaker, mindset coach, and the co-founder of All & Sundry, a premium custom footwear brand he successfully scaled and exited without raising funding or spending a single dollar on paid ads.
We dive deep into:
- The real story of how Mario bootstrapped a luxury e-commerce brand from a New York showroom
- How he landed celebrity clients like NFL stars and the CEO of Google (yes, really)
- His strategy for creating strategic partnerships that replaced the need for paid acquisition
- The hidden power of in-person events, referrals, and relationship-driven growth
- His journey into coaching and leadership, and why mindset is everything for founders
Mario shares the behind-the-scenes of:
- Surviving as a lean startup in NYC
- The role of referrals and real-world networking in scaling
- How custom products vs ready-to-wear affect growth and exit potential
- How they prepared the brand for an acquisition and successful exit
- What he wishes he had done differently along the way
Whether you're just starting out or already running a 7-8 figure brand, this episode is packed with tangible lessons, bold insights, and uncommon strategies you won't find anywhere else.
🔗 Connect with Mario
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Transcript
Welcome to Ecom
Speaker:Growth Insider, the
Speaker:show where we go
Speaker:behind the scenes
Speaker:with direct to
Speaker:consumer founders,
Speaker:marketers and growth
Speaker:experts who are
Speaker:scaling e commerce
Speaker:brands to seven,
Speaker:eight and even nine
Speaker:figures.
Speaker:I'm your host,
Speaker:Andrej Tomahovic,
Speaker:founder of Holo
Speaker:Growth, and on this
Speaker:podcast we cut
Speaker:through the noise
Speaker:and get to the real
Speaker:strategies that are
Speaker:working right now.
Speaker:In today's episode
Speaker:I'm joined by Mario
Speaker:Lanzaroti, co
Speaker:founder of the
Speaker:custom shoe brand
Speaker:all and Sundry,
Speaker:which he
Speaker:bootstrapped from
Speaker:scratch, landed
Speaker:celebrity deals and
Speaker:successfully exited.
Speaker:We dive into how he
Speaker:built strategic
Speaker:partnerships that
Speaker:fueled growth without
Speaker:paid ads, how in
Speaker:person experiences
Speaker:became his secret
Speaker:marketing weapon, and
Speaker:what every founder
Speaker:should know about
Speaker:avoiding burnout
Speaker:while scaling.
Speaker:If you're building
Speaker:an e commerce brand
Speaker:or thinking about
Speaker:selling one, this
Speaker:episode is packed
Speaker:with gold.
Speaker:So welcome to
Speaker:the Ecom Growth
Speaker:Insider podcast.
Speaker:I'm Andrej, the host
Speaker:and today
Speaker:I'm here with Mario
Speaker:Lanzarotti.
Speaker:Hi Mario.
Speaker:Hey Andre.
Speaker:Thank you for being
Speaker:the first person
Speaker:on earth in
Speaker:a podcast interview
Speaker:that spelled my
Speaker:name correctly.
Speaker:Kudos to you man.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:So Mario is a good
Speaker:friend of mine
Speaker:and also the co
Speaker:founder of all
Speaker:and sundry, an e
Speaker:commerce brand
Speaker:that he successfully
Speaker:exited.
Speaker:To kick things off,
Speaker:Mario, do you want to
Speaker:give a brief personal
Speaker:background of you?
Speaker:So basically where did
Speaker:you grow up and how
Speaker:did you find your way
Speaker:into the e commerce
Speaker:fashion industry?
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:So I grew up
Speaker:in Germany.
Speaker:I'm half German
Speaker:and half Italian,
Speaker:hence my name.
Speaker:And I first got
Speaker:into the e commerce
Speaker:game when I was
Speaker:studying in Berlin.
Speaker:I was studying
Speaker:fashion management
Speaker:and at the time I
Speaker:was doing SEO
Speaker:with a friend of mine
Speaker:who had a business
Speaker:in online
Speaker:sports betting.
Speaker:And he asked me to
Speaker:write content and I
Speaker:had no clue how it
Speaker:worked, I just
Speaker:understood that it's
Speaker:quite profitable.
Speaker:And so he taught
Speaker:me how to write
Speaker:articles with
Speaker:the right keywords.
Speaker:And so that was my
Speaker:first viewpoint into
Speaker:the online marketing
Speaker:world, online
Speaker:business world.
Speaker:And then fast forward
Speaker:when I went to New
Speaker:York City for the
Speaker:first time in 2014 as
Speaker:a, as a student, I
Speaker:had a six months sort
Speaker:of experience in New
Speaker:York City.
Speaker:And part of the three
Speaker:months of the six
Speaker:months were a three
Speaker:month internship.
Speaker:And so I went out and
Speaker:I went to a trade
Speaker:show and there was
Speaker:this guy, Indian guy,
Speaker:standing there, small
Speaker:booth with a bunch of
Speaker:incredibly beautiful
Speaker:shoes.
Speaker:And immediately my
Speaker:Italian spirit
Speaker:was like, check
Speaker:out those shoes.
Speaker:And so I did and I
Speaker:asked him about
Speaker:the shoes and he
Speaker:said, look, this
Speaker:is a personal project
Speaker:on the side
Speaker:I'm calling it all
Speaker:in sundry.
Speaker:It's custom
Speaker:made shoes.
Speaker:I'm like, okay, this
Speaker:sounds amazing.
Speaker:And I just gave
Speaker:it a shot.
Speaker:I said, hey, are
Speaker:you looking
Speaker:for any interns?
Speaker:And he said,
Speaker:absolutely.
Speaker:You know, I could use
Speaker:all the help I can.
Speaker:I said, okay, I'd
Speaker:love to intern for
Speaker:you, but only if
Speaker:you give me the
Speaker:chance to become
Speaker:your business
Speaker:partner and co
Speaker:founder if I, you
Speaker:know, if I prove
Speaker:myself.
Speaker:And he said, okay,
Speaker:you've got balls.
Speaker:Let's see if you
Speaker:know, your words
Speaker:match your actions.
Speaker:And so that was the
Speaker:time when I dove
Speaker:into all and sundry
Speaker:and, yeah, just
Speaker:hustled my heart
Speaker:out, you know, like,
Speaker:no pay, just work,
Speaker:work, work, work,
Speaker:work, work, work.
Speaker:And eventually,
Speaker:the founder, Nikunc
Speaker:Marwania, he said, I
Speaker:want you on board.
Speaker:I'll make you
Speaker:my co founder.
Speaker:Once you graduate
Speaker:in Germany, I want
Speaker:you to come back.
Speaker:And this was
Speaker:a year later.
Speaker:So I kept on
Speaker:working online.
Speaker:I had no contract, no
Speaker:agreement, just
Speaker:a handshake, no pay.
Speaker:And I remember
Speaker:telling my dad about
Speaker:it, and he was like,
Speaker:okay, this sounds
Speaker:good, but you need a
Speaker:contract, so make
Speaker:sure you're getting
Speaker:a contract.
Speaker:And I was like, sure,
Speaker:sure, sure, I'll
Speaker:get a contract.
Speaker:I never got
Speaker:a contract.
Speaker:So I just kept on
Speaker:hustling and hoping
Speaker:this is going
Speaker:to work out and he's
Speaker:not going to
Speaker:screw me over.
Speaker:But then in 2015,
Speaker:I moved over
Speaker:to New York
Speaker:on a tourist visa.
Speaker:No idea how I
Speaker:was going to figure
Speaker:this out.
Speaker:We both didn't
Speaker:have any plan.
Speaker:It was bootstrapped
Speaker:complet day one,
Speaker:and, you know, took
Speaker:the leap of faith
Speaker:and then went all
Speaker:in with it.
Speaker:Interesting.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And there are a couple
Speaker:of things that,
Speaker:like, stood out
Speaker:where I want to.
Speaker:Where I would like
Speaker:to dive deeper into.
Speaker:And one of the things
Speaker:is when you.
Speaker:When you started
Speaker:the internship
Speaker:and basically pitched
Speaker:your idea of
Speaker:becoming like a.
Speaker:A business partner
Speaker:for him, were there
Speaker:like any conditions
Speaker:that you decided on?
Speaker:Like, if we hit those
Speaker:conditions, then
Speaker:we can talk about it.
Speaker:Or was it based
Speaker:on a handshake
Speaker:deal without any
Speaker:specific goals?
Speaker:Yeah, see, in
Speaker:hindsight, that's
Speaker:what I would do again
Speaker:today to really map
Speaker:out the conditions
Speaker:back there, you know,
Speaker:to understand a bit
Speaker:of the backstory.
Speaker:For me, I was.
Speaker:All I cared about was
Speaker:how do I get myself
Speaker:into New York City
Speaker:with a minimum pay
Speaker:so I can be close to
Speaker:speakers and coaches?
Speaker:Because that was
Speaker:my real goal.
Speaker:I really wanted this
Speaker:to be sort of like a.
Speaker:A give me street
Speaker:credibility.
Speaker:In the entrepreneurial
Speaker:game.
Speaker:So that when I work
Speaker:with entrepreneurs
Speaker:later on they would
Speaker:respect me and they
Speaker:would allow, they
Speaker:would trust me.
Speaker:And so I didn't really
Speaker:have any conditions.
Speaker:I said that I want,
Speaker:you know, a certain
Speaker:level of equity
Speaker:in the company.
Speaker:And we agreed on that.
Speaker:But beyond that, it
Speaker:was sort of like,
Speaker:how much money do we
Speaker:need to do we need
Speaker:to take out of the
Speaker:company to sort of
Speaker:survive on the
Speaker:minimum level.
Speaker:And, and from there
Speaker:on we said, you
Speaker:know, we'll figure
Speaker:it out as we go.
Speaker:I don't recommend that
Speaker:approach to people.
Speaker:For me and Nick,
Speaker:we're still, to this
Speaker:day, we're dear
Speaker:friends, him and I.
Speaker:We resonated on
Speaker:very, very similar
Speaker:philosophies.
Speaker:So he was an avid
Speaker:meditator.
Speaker:I had been into
Speaker:meditation a bit
Speaker:and we really cared
Speaker:from the heart.
Speaker:And I saw how he
Speaker:showed up and he saw
Speaker:how I showed up in
Speaker:relationship to him.
Speaker:And that's why he
Speaker:moved, move
Speaker:mountains to get me
Speaker:over from Germany
Speaker:to the US which as
Speaker:a bootstrap startup
Speaker:without any funding
Speaker:is really hard to
Speaker:get a visa.
Speaker:We, we pulled off
Speaker:some crazy magic
Speaker:to get me to, to
Speaker:stay in the U.S.
Speaker:and so, yeah, I
Speaker:hope that answers
Speaker:the question.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, it does.
Speaker:So if I understand
Speaker:you correctly, you,
Speaker:like originally you
Speaker:didn't really care
Speaker:about whether it's
Speaker:like E commerce or
Speaker:what kind of
Speaker:business it is.
Speaker:You just wanted
Speaker:to get your foot into
Speaker:the door into like
Speaker:the New York market
Speaker:and into that, into
Speaker:the business world.
Speaker:Or did you have like
Speaker:any specific idea
Speaker:in mind what you want
Speaker:to do there in
Speaker:terms of like, e
Speaker:commerce business?
Speaker:Yeah, I mean, online
Speaker:was sort of the name
Speaker:of the game for me
Speaker:because I wanted to
Speaker:find a way to live
Speaker:wherever I wanted to
Speaker:live, but not be tied
Speaker:locationally to
Speaker:having to be there to
Speaker:earn money.
Speaker:And so that's when
Speaker:the idea of
Speaker:E commerce, of online
Speaker:marketing really
Speaker:became extremely
Speaker:attractive to me.
Speaker:And then the challenge
Speaker:that I found was
Speaker:I found it
Speaker:extremely boring.
Speaker:I was like, I don't
Speaker:want to just sit in
Speaker:front of a computer
Speaker:the whole day, you
Speaker:know, like, just
Speaker:watch a bunch of
Speaker:numbers and images
Speaker:and, you know, and,
Speaker:and really don't
Speaker:really get involved
Speaker:with people.
Speaker:But it was
Speaker:the combination of
Speaker:on and offline.
Speaker:Because we had
Speaker:a showroom in
Speaker:Manhattan on 18 West
Speaker:23rd street where
Speaker:people could come in
Speaker:to get fitted, right?
Speaker:They would, we
Speaker:would measure their
Speaker:feet, we would
Speaker:choose the colors
Speaker:and the patterns
Speaker:with them and it
Speaker:would be a total
Speaker:experience.
Speaker:And then it would be
Speaker:taken online and I
Speaker:absolutely love
Speaker:that idea to
Speaker:combine real life
Speaker:products that are
Speaker:of high quality
Speaker:with the efficiency
Speaker:of doing it online.
Speaker:And you know,
Speaker:the rest is, the rest
Speaker:is history.
Speaker:So did, did the
Speaker:majority of the
Speaker:customers come like
Speaker:in the store and
Speaker:then end up like
Speaker:later on purchasing
Speaker:online or how, how
Speaker:did that work?
Speaker:Yeah, a lot.
Speaker:So a lot.
Speaker:A big driver of the,
Speaker:of revenue of
Speaker:new customers came
Speaker:through the in
Speaker:person experience.
Speaker:And we also had
Speaker:strategic
Speaker:partnerships with a
Speaker:lot of custom tailors
Speaker:because we were
Speaker:thinking about where
Speaker:can we, who can we
Speaker:piggyback with to get
Speaker:customers without
Speaker:having to pay for it
Speaker:necessarily.
Speaker:So what we did was
Speaker:we went to custom
Speaker:tailors that were
Speaker:making suits and
Speaker:shirts and ties and
Speaker:we would set up
Speaker:like a mini small
Speaker:booth there.
Speaker:We bring the shoes
Speaker:and they would
Speaker:advertise it
Speaker:to all of their
Speaker:clients and they
Speaker:would then come
Speaker:in and they would
Speaker:get a cut.
Speaker:And so we would
Speaker:establish these
Speaker:relationships.
Speaker:And that was a big
Speaker:breakthrough in
Speaker:terms of customer
Speaker:acquisition
Speaker:because now we had
Speaker:these referral
Speaker:channels, constant
Speaker:referral channels
Speaker:from all over.
Speaker:And I would get
Speaker:called, you
Speaker:know, hey, you
Speaker:know, I've got
Speaker:another client that
Speaker:wants to buy
Speaker:another pair
Speaker:of shoes.
Speaker:And you know, and,
Speaker:and the good
Speaker:thing was it was
Speaker:usually the initial
Speaker:touch point
Speaker:that required more
Speaker:of an in
Speaker:person approach.
Speaker:But once that was
Speaker:done, people
Speaker:started ordering
Speaker:in the convenience
Speaker:of their own
Speaker:homes because they
Speaker:didn't have
Speaker:to come back.
Speaker:Some of them still
Speaker:did because they
Speaker:just loved to talk
Speaker:to us, especially
Speaker:to me because, you
Speaker:know, Italian
Speaker:background, you
Speaker:know, I was wearing
Speaker:most of the shoes.
Speaker:So there was like
Speaker:a little bit of
Speaker:a face of the company
Speaker:for a lot of
Speaker:the customers.
Speaker:And that what really
Speaker:helped us drive so
Speaker:many of the
Speaker:collaborations and
Speaker:you know, just
Speaker:altogether revenue
Speaker:without spending a
Speaker:dime on marketing,
Speaker:essentially.
Speaker:I mean, building
Speaker:out those referral
Speaker:partnerships
Speaker:sounds like it was
Speaker:like a pivotal moment
Speaker:or like a huge,
Speaker:huge driver
Speaker:of revenue.
Speaker:How did you approach
Speaker:that back then?
Speaker:Or how did you
Speaker:got your foot into
Speaker:the door of those
Speaker:other businesses
Speaker:to build
Speaker:that partnership?
Speaker:Yeah, I would say
Speaker:without those
Speaker:strategic
Speaker:partnerships, we
Speaker:would have not had a
Speaker:business, I mean, no
Speaker:chance.
Speaker:Because we were
Speaker:in the premium
Speaker:luxury segment
Speaker:with the products
Speaker:that we had.
Speaker:And so when you're
Speaker:premium luxury in E
Speaker:commerce, there's a
Speaker:lot of education
Speaker:around it, there's a
Speaker:lot of thought
Speaker:process, a lot of
Speaker:trust building
Speaker:around it because
Speaker:you're competing
Speaker:against brands that
Speaker:have been around for
Speaker:decades.
Speaker:Some of them, you
Speaker:know, over a hundred
Speaker:years, John
Speaker:Lobb, over a hundred
Speaker:years around.
Speaker:You know, there's
Speaker:a Custom shoe brand
Speaker:from England.
Speaker:And so we really
Speaker:had to
Speaker:establish a personal
Speaker:connection.
Speaker:And it's, you know,
Speaker:me coming into
Speaker:New York, I didn't
Speaker:know anybody.
Speaker:So it was Nick,
Speaker:my partner, who
Speaker:drove the initial
Speaker:conversation
Speaker:around getting
Speaker:to know people
Speaker:that could
Speaker:get us into other
Speaker:businesses.
Speaker:We also, we also tried
Speaker:to establish
Speaker:partnerships with
Speaker:like JP Morgan and
Speaker:some of the bigger
Speaker:finance institutions
Speaker:because obviously
Speaker:these guys, they need
Speaker:those kind of shoes.
Speaker:And we, a couple
Speaker:trunk shows here
Speaker:and there, but we
Speaker:didn't really,
Speaker:we weren't able
Speaker:to facilitate a,
Speaker:a partnership
Speaker:with them.
Speaker:I don't even
Speaker:remember why.
Speaker:I think it was
Speaker:a conversation around
Speaker:volume that didn't,
Speaker:didn't work.
Speaker:They, they needed
Speaker:much more volume
Speaker:and we weren't at
Speaker:the stage to be able
Speaker:to produce that.
Speaker:And then we went on
Speaker:to put up events.
Speaker:So we put together
Speaker:events and we
Speaker:invited a bunch
Speaker:of influencers
Speaker:and you know, friends
Speaker:of friends invited
Speaker:their friends.
Speaker:And so eventually
Speaker:we had some sort
Speaker:of middle tier
Speaker:influencers come.
Speaker:And I remember there
Speaker:was one guy, his
Speaker:name was Dex Rob,
Speaker:that we build a
Speaker:personal
Speaker:relationship with
Speaker:and to give you an
Speaker:understanding,
Speaker:usually the way it
Speaker:works is we gave
Speaker:them a free product.
Speaker:So we made a pair
Speaker:of shoes for them.
Speaker:They got the pair
Speaker:of shoes, they
Speaker:put it on, they
Speaker:loved it, they took
Speaker:pictures with it,
Speaker:videos, you know,
Speaker:the whole
Speaker:influencer game.
Speaker:But then they started
Speaker:to open up
Speaker:their network.
Speaker:And so this guy opened
Speaker:up the network to his
Speaker:clients and he was
Speaker:a personal stylist.
Speaker:So you know, when,
Speaker:when you run a, an E
Speaker:commerce brand and
Speaker:you want to do
Speaker:strategic
Speaker:partnerships, you
Speaker:have to understand
Speaker:who are the
Speaker:gatekeepers, who are
Speaker:the people that can
Speaker:open the door for you
Speaker:to get to a higher
Speaker:caliber client or a
Speaker:network where you can
Speaker:spread out and, and,
Speaker:and have a multiplier
Speaker:of meeting clients.
Speaker:And so Dex Rob then
Speaker:connected us to
Speaker:Cam Chancellor.
Speaker:Cam Chancellor is
Speaker:a NFL super bowl
Speaker:champion, played for
Speaker:the Seattle Seahawks
Speaker:at the time,
Speaker:Massive deal.
Speaker:And so he came
Speaker:to New York.
Speaker:We met him
Speaker:in New York.
Speaker:He loved the shoes,
Speaker:started designing
Speaker:a collaboration
Speaker:and in his own
Speaker:collection he flew us
Speaker:into Seattle.
Speaker:They did a launch
Speaker:party in Seattle with
Speaker:the whole team.
Speaker:The Seahawks came,
Speaker:was, you know,
Speaker:the Seattle
Speaker:Times came, was
Speaker:a big press event.
Speaker:TV was there.
Speaker:And just from there
Speaker:it started spreading
Speaker:and that was
Speaker:such a help.
Speaker:And from there we
Speaker:brokered deals with
Speaker:Sony, Sony's
Speaker:the Blacklist, the TV
Speaker:show which is still
Speaker:running today.
Speaker:The CEO of Google
Speaker:was a client of ours.
Speaker:He flew into the New
Speaker:York office.
Speaker:I didn't even know
Speaker:who the heck he was.
Speaker:I remember he showed
Speaker:out in a cab outside
Speaker:and I was standing
Speaker:there on 23rd street
Speaker:and was looking
Speaker:around and then this
Speaker:Indian dude in these
Speaker:loose sports or
Speaker:comes up to me, he's
Speaker:like, hey, are you
Speaker:Mario?
Speaker:And I'm looking at
Speaker:him, he's like,
Speaker:oh, are you Sundar?
Speaker:His name is
Speaker:Sundar Picha.
Speaker:And he's like, you
Speaker:know, multi
Speaker:billionaire CEO guru.
Speaker:And he came in, he was
Speaker:super down to earth,
Speaker:super humbled.
Speaker:My business partner
Speaker:freaked out because
Speaker:for him he was like
Speaker:a demigod in India.
Speaker:But came in, had a
Speaker:great experience and
Speaker:you know, I was
Speaker:invited to, I had to
Speaker:sign an NDA, so I
Speaker:can't say who it is
Speaker:to a billionaire in
Speaker:Long island to his
Speaker:mansion.
Speaker:You know, they, they
Speaker:drove me out there,
Speaker:bought 10 shoes
Speaker:in one go, which for
Speaker:us at the time was
Speaker:a huge deal.
Speaker:It was like
Speaker:6,000 or $7,000.
Speaker:You know, it's just
Speaker:like boom there.
Speaker:And so, you know,
Speaker:these partnerships,
Speaker:they put
Speaker:the name out.
Speaker:Another thing that we
Speaker:did was we had a,
Speaker:our launch event
Speaker:for, for another
Speaker:collaboration that
Speaker:we did with other
Speaker:NFL players in Jay
Speaker:Z's nightclub in, in
Speaker:Manhattan.
Speaker:And again, big
Speaker:event, right?
Speaker:And we really
Speaker:managed, that was our
Speaker:superpower because we
Speaker:were bootstrapped.
Speaker:We really managed to
Speaker:talk people into us
Speaker:not having to pay for
Speaker:these deals and even
Speaker:them investing into
Speaker:sort of the events.
Speaker:And you know,
Speaker:the Seattle Seahawks,
Speaker:they paid
Speaker:for everything.
Speaker:We didn't have to pay
Speaker:for anything.
Speaker:We said, guys, we
Speaker:don't, we don't
Speaker:have the money.
Speaker:We can't pay you guys.
Speaker:We bring the shoes
Speaker:and we bring
Speaker:the designs, but,
Speaker:but you got to set up
Speaker:everything else.
Speaker:And they did.
Speaker:And if it wasn't for
Speaker:that, Andre, we would
Speaker:not have survived.
Speaker:No chance.
Speaker:Interesting.
Speaker:And I think there are
Speaker:a lot of very, very
Speaker:valuable lessons
Speaker:just from that story
Speaker:that you just told.
Speaker:And I think nowadays
Speaker:business owners in
Speaker:general, but
Speaker:especially E
Speaker:commerce brands,
Speaker:really underestimate
Speaker:how important it is
Speaker:to build real
Speaker:relationships and
Speaker:real connections to
Speaker:people.
Speaker:How many doors it
Speaker:opens to you
Speaker:and how much it just
Speaker:helps with
Speaker:scaling the business.
Speaker:And also the in
Speaker:person events, I
Speaker:mean there are
Speaker:barely any, at
Speaker:least, I don't
Speaker:really know any E
Speaker:commerce brands that
Speaker:do like in person
Speaker:events.
Speaker:If they have like a
Speaker:retail store, then
Speaker:it's obviously
Speaker:easier to do it
Speaker:because then you
Speaker:already have some
Speaker:physical presence
Speaker:and it's easier to
Speaker:arrange something.
Speaker:But I see a lot of
Speaker:potential and a huge
Speaker:opportunity in doing
Speaker:events and real in
Speaker:person events just
Speaker:because nowadays
Speaker:everyone is shifting
Speaker:even more online,
Speaker:more remote, more
Speaker:into AI and all of
Speaker:those things that are
Speaker:just not as personal.
Speaker:And I think in the
Speaker:next couple of
Speaker:years, we'll see a
Speaker:big shift into more
Speaker:like, in person
Speaker:stuff again, more
Speaker:human connections,
Speaker:human relationships.
Speaker:Because if you meet
Speaker:someone in person,
Speaker:you're sure that
Speaker:that person is real,
Speaker:not an AI you're
Speaker:talking to.
Speaker:And I think that will
Speaker:really help a lot of
Speaker:brands stand out and
Speaker:build like a cult,
Speaker:like, following and
Speaker:really have, like,
Speaker:fans that then also.
Speaker:Yeah, build out,
Speaker:like, open the doors
Speaker:for you,
Speaker:refer you to other
Speaker:people and similar
Speaker:to what a lot
Speaker:of people did
Speaker:for you.
Speaker:Yeah, like to, to.
Speaker:To give you
Speaker:an understanding of
Speaker:how impactful
Speaker:relationships were.
Speaker:For me personally, if
Speaker:it wasn't for all of
Speaker:those celebrity deals
Speaker:and endorsements,
Speaker:I would have never
Speaker:gotten my visa.
Speaker:I had an O1 visa,
Speaker:O1A, and it was valid
Speaker:for four years
Speaker:and it was really
Speaker:difficult to get it.
Speaker:But because we had
Speaker:so many celebrity
Speaker:endorsements and I
Speaker:got it right, they,
Speaker:they, the lawyer,
Speaker:you know, presented
Speaker:me as like a, a
Speaker:super special kind
Speaker:of person.
Speaker:It's really necessary
Speaker:to get into the US
Speaker:and it worked out.
Speaker:And also the showroom
Speaker:that we had came
Speaker:through a personal
Speaker:relationship and the
Speaker:showroom that we had,
Speaker:if you, when you came
Speaker:into the showroom,
Speaker:you would have never
Speaker:thought that we are a
Speaker:bootstrapped, you
Speaker:know, little E
Speaker:Commerce brand
Speaker:founded by two
Speaker:people.
Speaker:You would have
Speaker:thought, wow, these
Speaker:guys are killing it.
Speaker:Because it was
Speaker:like this
Speaker:gentleman's club.
Speaker:You know, there was
Speaker:a corner where
Speaker:you could smoke C,
Speaker:you know, you got
Speaker:a whiskey on ice.
Speaker:There was always, you
Speaker:know, at least one
Speaker:beautiful lady sort
Speaker:of serving drinks.
Speaker:And, you know, there
Speaker:was like jazz music
Speaker:playing and it was
Speaker:this loungey area.
Speaker:People loved
Speaker:the experience.
Speaker:There was a poker
Speaker:table in the back.
Speaker:So it was like
Speaker:a proper
Speaker:gentleman's cave.
Speaker:And we paid so little
Speaker:for that in.
Speaker:In the middle of
Speaker:New York City.
Speaker:And that came because
Speaker:of a relationship.
Speaker:And, you know, if I
Speaker:didn't get that visa,
Speaker:I could not.
Speaker:I could not have
Speaker:stayed in the US If
Speaker:I could not have
Speaker:stayed in the US I
Speaker:could not be doing
Speaker:what I'm doing.
Speaker:So I built a big
Speaker:personal
Speaker:brand and I built
Speaker:so many connections
Speaker:and relationships
Speaker:that
Speaker:opened, you
Speaker:know, doors.
Speaker:You know, we haven't
Speaker:talked about that,
Speaker:but Kickstarter, we
Speaker:ran three Kickstarter
Speaker:campaigns.
Speaker:All of them were
Speaker:super successful.
Speaker:Again, so much of
Speaker:what we did in the
Speaker:Kickstarter
Speaker:campaign, when,
Speaker:even when it came
Speaker:down to the video
Speaker:crew relationships,
Speaker:we did Exchanges.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And I think, I still
Speaker:think that, you know,
Speaker:when you're a
Speaker:bootstrap company and
Speaker:you don't have that
Speaker:huge marketing
Speaker:budget, you need to
Speaker:leverage connections
Speaker:to also exchange
Speaker:services, to exchange
Speaker:opportunities to
Speaker:allow people to cross
Speaker:promote.
Speaker:And with what we did
Speaker:on Kickstarter,
Speaker:again, that brought
Speaker:a proof of concept
Speaker:to what we do and it
Speaker:attracted investors.
Speaker:We didn't go with
Speaker:the route investors.
Speaker:And we can talk
Speaker:about that a bit
Speaker:later, which
Speaker:leads to the exit.
Speaker:But highly, highly,
Speaker:highly, highly
Speaker:recommend that if
Speaker:you're an e commerce
Speaker:business owner, get
Speaker:out there, get into
Speaker:the real world and
Speaker:build connections
Speaker:with real people
Speaker:because you know,
Speaker:they will open the
Speaker:doors that people
Speaker:that are just behind
Speaker:their screen will
Speaker:never be able to
Speaker:open.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, that
Speaker:makes sense.
Speaker:And I mean you
Speaker:touched on that.
Speaker:You like didn't
Speaker:really have a lot
Speaker:of money and that
Speaker:like, that opened
Speaker:up a lot of doors
Speaker:for you without
Speaker:having to invest
Speaker:into marketing.
Speaker:So I'm just curious,
Speaker:where did you
Speaker:put like most of
Speaker:your money when
Speaker:it comes to like.
Speaker:Yeah, bootstrapping
Speaker:the business?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So one was for sure
Speaker:the product itself.
Speaker:I mean we had to make
Speaker:sure that our product
Speaker:was superb because
Speaker:the biggest challenge
Speaker:in the custom
Speaker:industry are remakes.
Speaker:Remix can kill
Speaker:your business.
Speaker:You know, if you.
Speaker:The shoes at the time
Speaker:we were selling
Speaker:them for 495.
Speaker:We were producing
Speaker:them anywhere
Speaker:from 100, from 130
Speaker:to $200 depending
Speaker:on the pair.
Speaker:Sometimes the price
Speaker:would then
Speaker:increase with it.
Speaker:So the margins were
Speaker:good, but they
Speaker:were not crazy.
Speaker:And you know, if we
Speaker:had one remake,
Speaker:you're just barely,
Speaker:barely cutting it.
Speaker:And so that's why
Speaker:we had to reinvest
Speaker:in the product.
Speaker:I remember we
Speaker:started out in China
Speaker:in Guangzhou.
Speaker:We had the leather
Speaker:flown in from Italy
Speaker:to Guangzhou
Speaker:and they were making
Speaker:exceptionally
Speaker:good shoes.
Speaker:The problem was that
Speaker:in China
Speaker:the communication
Speaker:wasn't at the level.
Speaker:So the Chinese that we
Speaker:were working with,
Speaker:they were lovely
Speaker:people and their
Speaker:creative thinking
Speaker:wasn't dialed in
Speaker:because for them was
Speaker:like, just tell us
Speaker:what you need to do
Speaker:and we'll get it
Speaker:done.
Speaker:And that worked,
Speaker:but we didn't have
Speaker:that partner level
Speaker:communication.
Speaker:So then what we
Speaker:decided was let's
Speaker:move our production
Speaker:away from
Speaker:China to Italy.
Speaker:And so then I flew
Speaker:to Italy and I
Speaker:had to set up
Speaker:the whole thing
Speaker:from scratch there
Speaker:with a local
Speaker:family outside
Speaker:of Tuscany.
Speaker:You know, they
Speaker:had already had
Speaker:a factory and we
Speaker:built that
Speaker:relationship there
Speaker:and then ended up
Speaker:moving production
Speaker:to Italy.
Speaker:And that was amazing.
Speaker:And so most of
Speaker:the money that we
Speaker:were Spending,
Speaker:you know, one was
Speaker:salary just to
Speaker:keep, keep us
Speaker:ourselves going
Speaker:as founders.
Speaker:But then it was
Speaker:about, you know,
Speaker:small events here
Speaker:and there,
Speaker:trunk show shows.
Speaker:You know, at that
Speaker:time, you know,
Speaker:even when you, we
Speaker:were traveling to
Speaker:like I flew, I
Speaker:remember I flew to
Speaker:Texas, Austin,
Speaker:Texas, and I set up
Speaker:a trunk show there.
Speaker:You know, you have
Speaker:to pay, you know,
Speaker:flights, hotels,
Speaker:cars, money for
Speaker:food, all of that.
Speaker:That costs money.
Speaker:And so we were
Speaker:investing money
Speaker:in that ways.
Speaker:The Kickstarter
Speaker:campaign definitely
Speaker:cost us some money.
Speaker:And it was a great
Speaker:way to you
Speaker:use crowdfunding
Speaker:to actually
Speaker:get traction on
Speaker:online and social
Speaker:media and also
Speaker:sell shoes.
Speaker:And what we often
Speaker:did is the shoes
Speaker:that we ended up
Speaker:selling to the
Speaker:Kickstarter betters
Speaker:is they came back
Speaker:as regular clients
Speaker:and started buying
Speaker:custom, from ready
Speaker:to wear to custom.
Speaker:So I'd say, you know,
Speaker:that's where most
Speaker:of the money went,
Speaker:like staffing
Speaker:the team that we paid
Speaker:the shoemakers.
Speaker:We eventually
Speaker:started hiring people
Speaker:in New York
Speaker:as well, you know,
Speaker:some staff to
Speaker:help out with,
Speaker:you know, to help
Speaker:me with sales.
Speaker:So yeah, I'd say
Speaker:that's where most
Speaker:of the money went.
Speaker:We didn't do ads, we
Speaker:didn't do email
Speaker:marketing campaigns
Speaker:because we focused
Speaker:on, you know,
Speaker:really honing in on
Speaker:the relationship
Speaker:part and on
Speaker:nurturing those in
Speaker:person experiences.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:And looking back, is
Speaker:there anything where
Speaker:you now think that
Speaker:you spent like too
Speaker:much time or too
Speaker:much money on it,
Speaker:where you didn't
Speaker:really get a return
Speaker:on investment?
Speaker:That's a great
Speaker:question.
Speaker:I think what would
Speaker:have helped us from
Speaker:an earlier point of
Speaker:view is to have a
Speaker:ready to wear
Speaker:collection, like
Speaker:something that's an
Speaker:easy buy, like where
Speaker:people don't have to
Speaker:think much.
Speaker:Does this work for me?
Speaker:Does not work for me.
Speaker:Because the time
Speaker:it took to make
Speaker:a sale with custom
Speaker:is prolonged.
Speaker:It's not a, you
Speaker:know, it's not
Speaker:like you go to
Speaker:the website and you
Speaker:go, oh, what's
Speaker:a T shirt and a size
Speaker:Sure I'll get that.
Speaker:And immediately
Speaker:you have a foot
Speaker:in the door.
Speaker:And I think we
Speaker:invested too much
Speaker:time in perfecting
Speaker:custom rather than
Speaker:also having a few
Speaker:other products that
Speaker:are easy to buy,
Speaker:you know, later
Speaker:down the line.
Speaker:We came up with
Speaker:matching belts, which
Speaker:was quite late.
Speaker:You know, I think
Speaker:that would have
Speaker:been better from
Speaker:the get go to sort
Speaker:of offer those
Speaker:combinations, even
Speaker:like accessories
Speaker:like shoe polish.
Speaker:You know, we didn't,
Speaker:we, we didn't jump
Speaker:on that train.
Speaker:So we, I think we
Speaker:obsessed a lot about
Speaker:perfecting what was
Speaker:Already a good
Speaker:quality shoe and
Speaker:really try to get it
Speaker:to like
Speaker:exceptionally high
Speaker:end.
Speaker:And yeah, I would
Speaker:do that
Speaker:differently today.
Speaker:I would want to
Speaker:have products
Speaker:in store that drive
Speaker:a lot more traffic
Speaker:and that drive
Speaker:a lot more of
Speaker:the conversation
Speaker:around the brand.
Speaker:Okay, yeah, that
Speaker:makes sense.
Speaker:And then I also
Speaker:wanted to quickly
Speaker:touch on, you
Speaker:mentioned a lot of
Speaker:brand owners,
Speaker:obviously start the
Speaker:brand from scratch
Speaker:and build
Speaker:everything from the
Speaker:ground up.
Speaker:But you basically had
Speaker:a different approach.
Speaker:You decided to
Speaker:partner up with
Speaker:someone who already
Speaker:had a business and
Speaker:basically come onto
Speaker:the team and first
Speaker:as an intern and
Speaker:then transition into
Speaker:a business partner.
Speaker:Looking back, like,
Speaker:would you do it
Speaker:again this way
Speaker:and what are the main
Speaker:things you
Speaker:would say to consider
Speaker:going with
Speaker:that approach?
Speaker:Yeah, I definitely
Speaker:would do it again
Speaker:because I've done it
Speaker:twice actually.
Speaker:I've done it first
Speaker:in Berlin where I was
Speaker:an intern at a high
Speaker:end luxury marketing
Speaker:agency, branding
Speaker:marketing agency.
Speaker:And I interned
Speaker:and the.
Speaker:I remember we were
Speaker:putting together an
Speaker:event, a luxury
Speaker:exhibition over a
Speaker:whole weekend in
Speaker:Berlin with like, you
Speaker:know, yachts and like
Speaker:high end cars.
Speaker:And I'd never done
Speaker:anything like it.
Speaker:And the guy, the owner
Speaker:of the company, who
Speaker:was
Speaker:also my professor,
Speaker:said to me,
Speaker:I need a sponsor
Speaker:for
Speaker:a shuttle service.
Speaker:And he's like,
Speaker:normally we would
Speaker:work with like
Speaker:Porsche or Audi,
Speaker:but you know, what do
Speaker:you think?
Speaker:And then Uber
Speaker:just came out.
Speaker:But when Uber came
Speaker:out, Uber was not
Speaker:what Uber is today.
Speaker:Uber came out as
Speaker:a luxury car
Speaker:limousine service.
Speaker:So when you ordered
Speaker:an Uber,
Speaker:at first you had like
Speaker:a Audi A8, you
Speaker:know, S class,
Speaker:Volkswagen Phaeton,
Speaker:these kind
Speaker:of level cars.
Speaker:And so I saw that
Speaker:and I was like, what
Speaker:if we get these guys?
Speaker:And then he said, you
Speaker:go figure it out.
Speaker:I said, how am I going
Speaker:to supposed
Speaker:to figure that out?
Speaker:I said, I don't
Speaker:know, figure it out.
Speaker:I was like,
Speaker:great, thanks.
Speaker:So he threw me into
Speaker:the cold water and I
Speaker:brokered a, I think
Speaker:it was like 30 or
Speaker:€40,000 sponsorship
Speaker:deal for the entire
Speaker:weekend that they
Speaker:gave free rides to
Speaker:every single guest.
Speaker:And that was great for
Speaker:both of us, right?
Speaker:And because he saw
Speaker:that success, he's
Speaker:like, yeah, I'm going
Speaker:to make you partner.
Speaker:And then I thought,
Speaker:if I did it here,
Speaker:why not do it again?
Speaker:And I would say this
Speaker:is not for the faint
Speaker:of heart because
Speaker:you're anchoring
Speaker:yourself
Speaker:at a partner level.
Speaker:That's a radical
Speaker:shift in mindset.
Speaker:If you've never been
Speaker:a business partner
Speaker:and now you gotta be
Speaker:a business partner.
Speaker:It takes up everything
Speaker:from you, because you
Speaker:have to step into the
Speaker:responsibility of the
Speaker:owner of the
Speaker:business, even though
Speaker:you're not
Speaker:technically the owner
Speaker:of the business.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:You're a shareholder
Speaker:in it.
Speaker:And it's quite
Speaker:a brutal journey.
Speaker:Like, I won't lie.
Speaker:You know, in New
Speaker:York, I worked
Speaker:seven days a week.
Speaker:Literally seven
Speaker:days a week.
Speaker:You know, I
Speaker:barely went out.
Speaker:You know, I was like
Speaker:a machine drilled
Speaker:in at that time.
Speaker:And I wouldn't
Speaker:change it going back
Speaker:because of
Speaker:the learning curve.
Speaker:The level of learning
Speaker:and maturity that
Speaker:I got out of that was
Speaker:incredibly high.
Speaker:And I always knew
Speaker:for me that I wanted
Speaker:to do public speaking
Speaker:and coaching.
Speaker:So leadership
Speaker:was always at
Speaker:the forefront.
Speaker:So I was like, okay,
Speaker:I gotta learn how
Speaker:to think, act,
Speaker:and live like a true
Speaker:leader, like a CEO.
Speaker:And so that's why
Speaker:I said, you know,
Speaker:let me live close
Speaker:to the CEOs, to
Speaker:the guys that found
Speaker:these companies.
Speaker:And it was, like I
Speaker:said, an
Speaker:accelerated
Speaker:learning company
Speaker:that I would
Speaker:definitely do
Speaker:again, but, you
Speaker:know, might not be
Speaker:for everyone,
Speaker:because it really
Speaker:will ask everything
Speaker:of you.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And how did you figure
Speaker:out the split
Speaker:in terms of, like,
Speaker:who is doing what?
Speaker:Because I hear from a
Speaker:lot of, like,
Speaker:business partners or
Speaker:if multiple people,
Speaker:like, manage a
Speaker:business, that they
Speaker:always struggle with
Speaker:figuring out the
Speaker:responsibilities and
Speaker:who is, like,
Speaker:working on what.
Speaker:How did you
Speaker:approach that?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So nowadays,
Speaker:obviously, as you
Speaker:know, I have a whole
Speaker:process
Speaker:around that and, you
Speaker:know, how you
Speaker:optimize all these
Speaker:things.
Speaker:Back then we just
Speaker:decided, you know, I
Speaker:was sort of like.
Speaker:We had a conversation
Speaker:around each
Speaker:other's strengths.
Speaker:When I first started
Speaker:out, you know,
Speaker:given the fact that
Speaker:I started as an
Speaker:intern, he would
Speaker:initially guide me
Speaker:a lot in, like,
Speaker:understanding.
Speaker:Understanding
Speaker:the basics, you
Speaker:know, I remember
Speaker:I came in and I,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:opened my MacBook,
Speaker:and he looked
Speaker:at my Mac.
Speaker:He was like, dude, you
Speaker:have no organization
Speaker:on your MacBook.
Speaker:You know, and I'm
Speaker:like, well, no.
Speaker:He's like.
Speaker:And he showed me how
Speaker:to organize myself
Speaker:on my MacBook
Speaker:and, like, how to
Speaker:build structure in
Speaker:my workflow.
Speaker:And over time, as we
Speaker:figured each other
Speaker:out, we got to know
Speaker:each other better.
Speaker:It was clear that I'm
Speaker:sort of like, more
Speaker:of the extroverted
Speaker:person.
Speaker:So my focus was
Speaker:customers, was sales.
Speaker:Then he would
Speaker:step back further
Speaker:and further in the.
Speaker:In the management
Speaker:role, and I would
Speaker:take over the coo.
Speaker:So I was taking
Speaker:care of operations
Speaker:of people.
Speaker:In hindsight, I think
Speaker:the role wasn't
Speaker:optimal for me.
Speaker:I think the sales
Speaker:role was definitely
Speaker:very good for Me,
Speaker:because I was very
Speaker:good at selling, I
Speaker:would have probably
Speaker:taken over more of a
Speaker:brand face marketing
Speaker:role.
Speaker:So when you see all
Speaker:in sundry, you see me
Speaker:speaking, wearing
Speaker:the shoes because it
Speaker:just fits from
Speaker:a style perspective.
Speaker:But today I would
Speaker:say you need
Speaker:to understand
Speaker:your values
Speaker:and you need to
Speaker:understand your
Speaker:strengths and your
Speaker:weaknesses.
Speaker:These three things,
Speaker:once you understand
Speaker:them and you have
Speaker:a business partner,
Speaker:they should
Speaker:do the same thing.
Speaker:You come together
Speaker:and you look at,
Speaker:you know, where
Speaker:do I excel in,
Speaker:what are my
Speaker:skills, what are
Speaker:my, what are my
Speaker:values also?
Speaker:And where do I not?
Speaker:And then you figure
Speaker:out what are
Speaker:the roles that
Speaker:can be complimentary
Speaker:to that.
Speaker:But if you skip
Speaker:that part, you are
Speaker:throwing a coin
Speaker:and you're
Speaker:hoping that things
Speaker:will work out.
Speaker:And I can tell you
Speaker:that we've definitely
Speaker:had a lot of mismatch
Speaker:in the roles and that
Speaker:led to, it led to
Speaker:conflict between us.
Speaker:It led to also
Speaker:me focusing on things
Speaker:that I clearly wasn't
Speaker:the best at and, you
Speaker:know, vice versa.
Speaker:And so I would say
Speaker:going back, I
Speaker:definitely would
Speaker:apply more of a
Speaker:structured approach
Speaker:and also jot it down
Speaker:on paper to be clear
Speaker:that the roles are
Speaker:distinct and the
Speaker:roles are agreed
Speaker:upon.
Speaker:Because every role
Speaker:comes with a set
Speaker:of different
Speaker:responsibilities.
Speaker:And if you don't
Speaker:communicate it, you
Speaker:just make a couple
Speaker:assumptions and then
Speaker:the only time you're
Speaker:going to change is
Speaker:when you know some
Speaker:massive fire is
Speaker:burning in the
Speaker:company.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I mean, ideally
Speaker:you should do that
Speaker:before you even
Speaker:partner up, before
Speaker:you find like a
Speaker:business partner or
Speaker:decide whether you
Speaker:want to move
Speaker:forward with that.
Speaker:But obviously
Speaker:sometimes it's too
Speaker:late and you're
Speaker:already in
Speaker:the partnership.
Speaker:But still, then you
Speaker:can still like do it.
Speaker:You should try
Speaker:to figure it out
Speaker:whether there
Speaker:is a way how you
Speaker:can work together,
Speaker:how it
Speaker:makes sense for
Speaker:everyone.
Speaker:And then, I mean, if
Speaker:it's too bad, then
Speaker:unfortunately
Speaker:you will have to end
Speaker:the relationship or
Speaker:the partnership.
Speaker:Because I think
Speaker:that's one of the
Speaker:worst things that
Speaker:you can do to
Speaker:yourself is just
Speaker:being in a
Speaker:partnership with
Speaker:someone who you
Speaker:don't align with or
Speaker:where you can't do
Speaker:the things that you
Speaker:want to do or the
Speaker:things that you
Speaker:excel at.
Speaker:Yeah, I would say
Speaker:it's probably one
Speaker:of the biggest
Speaker:reasons why,
Speaker:why companies fail
Speaker:when they have
Speaker:a mismatch between
Speaker:business
Speaker:partners, between.
Speaker:Because what you're
Speaker:really having
Speaker:is a mismatch in
Speaker:decision making.
Speaker:And if you have one
Speaker:person that pulls
Speaker:left and the other
Speaker:person pulling right
Speaker:now you're
Speaker:not going straight.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And so that costs
Speaker:you a lot of money.
Speaker:And I feel that
Speaker:actually, I know that
Speaker:it's extremely
Speaker:undervalued this part
Speaker:of the conversation.
Speaker:Most just say,
Speaker:okay, yeah, you want
Speaker:to partner up?
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:Cool, let's do it.
Speaker:We get along.
Speaker:Okay, cool.
Speaker:Now what do we do?
Speaker:Okay, marketing,
Speaker:sales, operations,
Speaker:finance.
Speaker:Okay, cool, yeah,
Speaker:we'll figure it out.
Speaker:And then you invest
Speaker:six months, a year,
Speaker:two years, and then
Speaker:you realize, damn,
Speaker:you know, we're now
Speaker:sacked in into a
Speaker:corner where we can't
Speaker:really get out.
Speaker:And, you know, so
Speaker:many things depend
Speaker:upon us, so many of
Speaker:the structures in
Speaker:the company, so many
Speaker:team members that we
Speaker:hired based upon
Speaker:that, and it just
Speaker:becomes this
Speaker:freaking chaotic
Speaker:mess.
Speaker:And so you don't want
Speaker:to get into that.
Speaker:You want to do it
Speaker:like you said
Speaker:at the get go.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And then, I mean,
Speaker:going forward, what
Speaker:were kind of the
Speaker:main factors that
Speaker:led you to making
Speaker:the decision that
Speaker:it's time to exit
Speaker:the business?
Speaker:Was it like a plan
Speaker:all along or.
Speaker:Yeah, so it was a plan
Speaker:all along for sure.
Speaker:I remember this was
Speaker:part of the
Speaker:conversation where I
Speaker:asked to become a
Speaker:business partner.
Speaker:And I told my business
Speaker:partner from the get
Speaker:go, I said, look, I
Speaker:am here in New York
Speaker:because I want to
Speaker:become a speaker and
Speaker:a coach, and I want
Speaker:all and sundry to be
Speaker:my first real
Speaker:committed experience
Speaker:in the world of
Speaker:entrepreneurship.
Speaker:But I know this will
Speaker:not be the end.
Speaker:I will not be doing
Speaker:this forever.
Speaker:And I said, are you
Speaker:okay with that?
Speaker:And he said,
Speaker:absolutely, as long
Speaker:as you give me your
Speaker:best for the next,
Speaker:you know, X years,
Speaker:I'm good with that.
Speaker:And then we'll
Speaker:talk, you know, as
Speaker:it comes further.
Speaker:And I said, okay,
Speaker:cool, this sounds
Speaker:good to me.
Speaker:And then initially I
Speaker:started communicating
Speaker:to my founder.
Speaker:I said, look, I kind
Speaker:of feel like, you
Speaker:know, it's somewhat
Speaker:time for me
Speaker:to make a move.
Speaker:And this was like
Speaker:a year before I
Speaker:actually made a move.
Speaker:And so I started
Speaker:talking about.
Speaker:Then he said, okay,
Speaker:I respect that.
Speaker:You know, if it, if
Speaker:you're not staying
Speaker:in the company,
Speaker:then I will not be
Speaker:growing the company
Speaker:on my own.
Speaker:So let's try to
Speaker:sell the company.
Speaker:Because we had
Speaker:conversations with
Speaker:investors to scale
Speaker:it up is very
Speaker:complex because when
Speaker:you're doing custom,
Speaker:custom at scale is
Speaker:really, really,
Speaker:really hard because
Speaker:of the nature of
Speaker:remakes, because of
Speaker:the nature of the
Speaker:complexity of what
Speaker:can go wrong.
Speaker:And we, the investors,
Speaker:wanted to
Speaker:see a Ready to Wear
Speaker:line, hence why
Speaker:we did the whole
Speaker:Kickstarter campaign
Speaker:with Ready
Speaker:to Wear shoes.
Speaker:And as a Proof
Speaker:of concept, showing
Speaker:them, hey, if we pump
Speaker:this much money in,
Speaker:we're going to get
Speaker:this much money back.
Speaker:So it definitely
Speaker:works.
Speaker:But we realized that
Speaker:the process to get
Speaker:funding was just
Speaker:dragging out, just
Speaker:dragging out, you
Speaker:know, and when you're
Speaker:bootstrapped and both
Speaker:of you are fully
Speaker:involved in the
Speaker:company, having one
Speaker:person removed to
Speaker:then go on, you know,
Speaker:on a funding spree is
Speaker:hard.
Speaker:It's really, really
Speaker:difficult because you
Speaker:are fully involved
Speaker:in the business.
Speaker:And so that we got
Speaker:some offers, but they
Speaker:weren't, you know,
Speaker:satisfactory to
Speaker:what we're doing.
Speaker:And then we decide,
Speaker:okay, let's go
Speaker:with the route to
Speaker:sell the business.
Speaker:And then my business
Speaker:partner, he took
Speaker:that on to have those
Speaker:conversations.
Speaker:Sometimes I was
Speaker:looped in the
Speaker:conversations as
Speaker:well, but I was
Speaker:running the whole
Speaker:business by myself
Speaker:at that point and,
Speaker:you know, and had
Speaker:some support with
Speaker:other team members,
Speaker:but it was coming to
Speaker:an end because also
Speaker:the fire wasn't
Speaker:there anymore.
Speaker:Like, I felt that
Speaker:I'd outgrown my role,
Speaker:I'd outgrown my
Speaker:capacity to create
Speaker:impact, and it just
Speaker:felt very aligned.
Speaker:And then my co
Speaker:founder eventually
Speaker:found someone that
Speaker:ended up buying the
Speaker:company in exchange
Speaker:for shares for a
Speaker:bigger company,
Speaker:which turned out to
Speaker:be a great deal.
Speaker:The company's still
Speaker:growing and we still
Speaker:have those shares,
Speaker:and now we're in
Speaker:the seven figure
Speaker:space with that.
Speaker:And so, you know,
Speaker:fingers crossed that
Speaker:continues to grow.
Speaker:But I'd say the most
Speaker:important experience
Speaker:for us was to build
Speaker:a business that we
Speaker:actually
Speaker:successfully exited
Speaker:and to also make
Speaker:peace with the fact
Speaker:that, you know, it
Speaker:didn't become this
Speaker:eight, nine figure
Speaker:brand that we were,
Speaker:you know, dreaming
Speaker:about in the very
Speaker:beginning.
Speaker:But it was
Speaker:an incredible
Speaker:door opener.
Speaker:The learning lessons
Speaker:that I got, you know,
Speaker:and having been
Speaker:through this whole
Speaker:New York City hustle
Speaker:grind, experience led
Speaker:me to what I'm doing
Speaker:today.
Speaker:And so for that, I'm
Speaker:eternally grateful.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That's amazing.
Speaker:And did you do
Speaker:anything to ensure
Speaker:that the company
Speaker:was attractive
Speaker:to the buyer or
Speaker:did you just
Speaker:sell it as it was
Speaker:at that point?
Speaker:Yeah, we were.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:And this was part
Speaker:of the Kickstarter
Speaker:conversation.
Speaker:We did three
Speaker:campaigns, and
Speaker:initially we did
Speaker:those campaigns
Speaker:because we wanted to,
Speaker:you know, we wanted
Speaker:to polish up the
Speaker:image of the company
Speaker:saying, hey, look,
Speaker:you know, we have
Speaker:proof of concept
Speaker:three times here.
Speaker:It definitely works.
Speaker:The next thing, also
Speaker:part of the move
Speaker:from China to
Speaker:Italy was also to.
Speaker:To prepare it for an
Speaker:exit because, you
Speaker:know, credibility,
Speaker:trust factor,
Speaker:communication line,
Speaker:exclusivity with,
Speaker:with the family that
Speaker:makes the custom
Speaker:shoes, all of that
Speaker:was geared towards
Speaker:helping us to
Speaker:definitely seal a
Speaker:deal with becoming
Speaker:exit ready.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And is there something
Speaker:that you nowadays
Speaker:would do different
Speaker:than you did back
Speaker:then in terms of
Speaker:the exit process?
Speaker:That's a good
Speaker:question.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I mean, I would say
Speaker:if we had known
Speaker:from the get go
Speaker:that this is.
Speaker:That we're building
Speaker:this for an exit, I
Speaker:think we would have
Speaker:diversified the
Speaker:product offering a
Speaker:lot sooner with
Speaker:Ready to Wear to
Speaker:really scale up.
Speaker:Because when it comes
Speaker:to exiting, it's
Speaker:strongly dependent
Speaker:on numbers.
Speaker:And we often relied
Speaker:on custom, which
Speaker:wasn't as predictable
Speaker:of a revenue driver.
Speaker:And so I think we
Speaker:would have made some
Speaker:changes in terms of,
Speaker:of revenue.
Speaker:I think we also would
Speaker:have established more
Speaker:of an online strategy
Speaker:to attract and retain
Speaker:customers because as
Speaker:I said, a lot of it
Speaker:was in person based.
Speaker:And then lastly was
Speaker:also to build more
Speaker:of a we brand rather
Speaker:than an I brand.
Speaker:The brand was often
Speaker:centered around,
Speaker:you know, my
Speaker:co founder and me.
Speaker:A lot of the clients
Speaker:mostly refer to me.
Speaker:So that was
Speaker:a big fear.
Speaker:It's like, okay,
Speaker:well, if your guy's
Speaker:not here anymore,
Speaker:what happens to
Speaker:all the relationships
Speaker:that you build?
Speaker:Because if you build
Speaker:a heavy
Speaker:relationship
Speaker:business and then
Speaker:you remove the
Speaker:figures that build
Speaker:those
Speaker:relationships, for
Speaker:a buyer, that's
Speaker:extremely
Speaker:unattractive.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So I would shift that,
Speaker:keeping that in mind,
Speaker:so that we are much
Speaker:more replaceable.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And that's what a lot
Speaker:of people forget if
Speaker:they're looking to
Speaker:at some point exit
Speaker:or sell their
Speaker:business, that they
Speaker:can't really be the
Speaker:face of the
Speaker:business, the face
Speaker:of the brand,
Speaker:because it has a lot
Speaker:of benefits of
Speaker:having a personal
Speaker:brand, the business,
Speaker:and being on the
Speaker:forefront of
Speaker:everything in the
Speaker:marketing material,
Speaker:on the website,
Speaker:talking to all the
Speaker:clients, customers.
Speaker:However, as you just
Speaker:mentioned, for
Speaker:a potential buyer,
Speaker:it's one of the worst
Speaker:things because once
Speaker:you sell it, you're
Speaker:not there anymore.
Speaker:And if they then have
Speaker:to suddenly switch
Speaker:everything,
Speaker:transition
Speaker:everything, they
Speaker:don't know whether
Speaker:the customers will
Speaker:stay, whether the
Speaker:marketing will still
Speaker:be efficient and
Speaker:yeah, it just makes
Speaker:your company way less
Speaker:valuable to buyers.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Awesome.
Speaker:Yeah, I think that was
Speaker:very, very valuable
Speaker:for the last
Speaker:couple of minutes.
Speaker:I would like to
Speaker:quickly touch on what
Speaker:you're doing now.
Speaker:So Mario's basically,
Speaker:as he touched on,
Speaker:he's now more into
Speaker:the coaching,
Speaker:leadership and public
Speaker:speaking industry.
Speaker:And he's also my
Speaker:leadership coach,
Speaker:mindset coach,
Speaker:and helping me
Speaker:scale my business
Speaker:without burning
Speaker:out and without
Speaker:going
Speaker:completely crazy.
Speaker:And yeah, I want
Speaker:like how was
Speaker:the transition
Speaker:from like exiting
Speaker:the E Commerce
Speaker:brand going
Speaker:into what you're
Speaker:doing now?
Speaker:Yeah, super scary
Speaker:because I left a
Speaker:comfortable network
Speaker:and mechanism in New
Speaker:York that was
Speaker:driving revenue that
Speaker:was giving me, you
Speaker:know, an income.
Speaker:And I remember after
Speaker:we sold the company,
Speaker:I left New York
Speaker:because I, I noticed
Speaker:that I was often
Speaker:super burned out,
Speaker:super stressed out,
Speaker:super anxious, you
Speaker:know, on a day to
Speaker:day basis.
Speaker:And that's not
Speaker:why I became
Speaker:an entrepreneur.
Speaker:I was like, this
Speaker:is, you know,
Speaker:this is stupid.
Speaker:You know, I feel,
Speaker:I feel worse than
Speaker:people in a 9 to 5
Speaker:hamster wheel.
Speaker:And now I'm in the,
Speaker:I'm in the grind
Speaker:hamster wheel.
Speaker:And so then I left New
Speaker:York and I traveled
Speaker:remotely with
Speaker:my then girlfriend
Speaker:today wife.
Speaker:And in a while
Speaker:traveling I gave
Speaker:myself six months
Speaker:to have enough
Speaker:money to not having
Speaker:to work, to not be
Speaker:dependent on making
Speaker:sales because I
Speaker:really wanted to
Speaker:make it
Speaker:intentional.
Speaker:I wanted to take my
Speaker:time and to build
Speaker:something that's
Speaker:valuable and not
Speaker:just be another
Speaker:coach because
Speaker:there's plenty of
Speaker:other coaches
Speaker:there.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So I took time to
Speaker:really reflect upon
Speaker:what methodologies
Speaker:I want to use.
Speaker:And that's how I then
Speaker:eventually came to
Speaker:build the Zenpreneur
Speaker:method, which is
Speaker:really a way to
Speaker:rapidly scale your
Speaker:business by
Speaker:identifying what are
Speaker:the hidden
Speaker:bottlenecks.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:You may say your
Speaker:bottleneck is
Speaker:lead generation.
Speaker:Okay, got it.
Speaker:So what's the behavior
Speaker:that is
Speaker:causing your lead
Speaker:generation block?
Speaker:You might say, oh, I'm
Speaker:working too much in
Speaker:the business rather
Speaker:than on the business.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:I'm avoiding building
Speaker:a real process
Speaker:in the system for
Speaker:lead generation.
Speaker:Okay, why are you
Speaker:avoiding that?
Speaker:And now we get into
Speaker:the realm of your
Speaker:mindset, we get into
Speaker:the realm of your
Speaker:belief system.
Speaker:And so that's really
Speaker:where the crux is
Speaker:for people to be
Speaker:able to change.
Speaker:And so that for me
Speaker:when I started to
Speaker:see that I was like,
Speaker:okay, it's not about
Speaker:your business
Speaker:strategy because you
Speaker:can just go to a
Speaker:freaking chatgpt and
Speaker:it'll give you a, a
Speaker:really good business
Speaker:strategy.
Speaker:But the execution
Speaker:part of it is about
Speaker:your emotions, is
Speaker:about your, your
Speaker:belief system.
Speaker:And so I build,
Speaker:yeah, I build a multi
Speaker:six figure coaching
Speaker:business from
Speaker:scratch again through
Speaker:relationships.
Speaker:You know, like I'm now
Speaker:this year getting
Speaker:more into strategic
Speaker:lead generation.
Speaker:Before I didn't have
Speaker:to, it was all
Speaker:through partnerships
Speaker:and relationships.
Speaker:And you and I, we met
Speaker:through a strategic
Speaker:relationship
Speaker:of mine, client
Speaker:ascension, where
Speaker:I'm the in house
Speaker:mindset
Speaker:leadership coach.
Speaker:And yeah, you know,
Speaker:I do seminars
Speaker:I do speeches all
Speaker:over the world.
Speaker:I'm launching my own
Speaker:signature event which
Speaker:will be like a four
Speaker:or five hour sort
Speaker:of day retreat.
Speaker:Going really deep,
Speaker:really powerful
Speaker:changes for
Speaker:entrepreneurs that
Speaker:are scaling and that
Speaker:don't want
Speaker:to hate their
Speaker:life while they're
Speaker:scaling.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And you know, now I'm
Speaker:based in Cape Town
Speaker:in South Africa,
Speaker:but I will be
Speaker:traveling frequently.
Speaker:Come winter here,
Speaker:southern winter
Speaker:hemisphere, northern
Speaker:summer, which is sort
Speaker:of like June, July,
Speaker:August, September,
Speaker:I'll be in Europe,
Speaker:I'll be in the States
Speaker:and then I'll be
Speaker:coming back here.
Speaker:This is amazing
Speaker:and so exciting.
Speaker:Now, based on your
Speaker:hundreds of coaching
Speaker:sessions that you
Speaker:did and working with
Speaker:a bunch of business
Speaker:owners, what is like
Speaker:your number one
Speaker:piece of advice
Speaker:specifically for e
Speaker:commerce brand
Speaker:owners or for people
Speaker:who are scaling
Speaker:their business to
Speaker:make sure they don't
Speaker:hate their life
Speaker:doing that?
Speaker:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Awareness is
Speaker:the game, is the name
Speaker:of the game.
Speaker:Building awareness.
Speaker:Awareness means you
Speaker:understand what
Speaker:you're doing and why
Speaker:you're doing it.
Speaker:So what are
Speaker:the thoughts
Speaker:and the feelings that
Speaker:are driving
Speaker:your actions?
Speaker:Why are you doing
Speaker:what you're
Speaker:doing every day?
Speaker:Most business
Speaker:owners can't answer
Speaker:that question.
Speaker:They'll just like,
Speaker:oh, well, I want
Speaker:to make money.
Speaker:Okay, why do you want
Speaker:to make money?
Speaker:Oh, because I want
Speaker:to have
Speaker:financial freedom.
Speaker:Why do you want
Speaker:to have
Speaker:financial freedom?
Speaker:Yeah, so I can buy
Speaker:a house for my
Speaker:mom and my dad.
Speaker:Yeah, cool, right?
Speaker:So it's super
Speaker:superficial and you
Speaker:don't understand
Speaker:what's really
Speaker:driving you.
Speaker:And so many times
Speaker:you're driven by
Speaker:scarcity patterns.
Speaker:You know, you're
Speaker:driven by proving
Speaker:other people, proving
Speaker:your worth to other
Speaker:people, proving
Speaker:other people wrong.
Speaker:You know, you're
Speaker:driven by trying to
Speaker:be perfect and those
Speaker:drivers, they make
Speaker:you very ineffective.
Speaker:So I would say
Speaker:a consultation is
Speaker:you need to be in
Speaker:an awareness
Speaker:building process.
Speaker:And it can be as
Speaker:little as daily
Speaker:journaling where you
Speaker:just become aware
Speaker:of how have I been
Speaker:feeling today?
Speaker:And because of those
Speaker:feelings, what have
Speaker:those actions come
Speaker:from those feelings?
Speaker:If you want to take it
Speaker:to another level, get
Speaker:into a group or one
Speaker:on one coaching where
Speaker:people can hold up a
Speaker:mirror where you
Speaker:know, when you say
Speaker:something then you
Speaker:get asked back, you
Speaker:know, did you notice
Speaker:that while you were
Speaker:saying that, you
Speaker:know, things are
Speaker:looking good, you
Speaker:were looking down the
Speaker:whole time and you
Speaker:were like twitching
Speaker:with your fingers and
Speaker:then you're like, oh,
Speaker:no, I wasn't noticing
Speaker:that.
Speaker:Well, what's going on?
Speaker:And then you
Speaker:realize, oh, I'm
Speaker:actually feeling
Speaker:really anxious.
Speaker:Why are you
Speaker:feeling anxious?
Speaker:Oh, because, you know,
Speaker:there's a part of
Speaker:the part of me that
Speaker:keeps telling me I'm
Speaker:not good enough.
Speaker:I'm not good enough.
Speaker:No wonder you're
Speaker:always so stressed
Speaker:out and so rushed
Speaker:and making so many
Speaker:reactive decisions.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So you have to have
Speaker:an awareness
Speaker:building process.
Speaker:And the best way to do
Speaker:it is to have
Speaker:somebody reflect you
Speaker:because you can't see
Speaker:your own blind spots.
Speaker:You don't know what
Speaker:you don't know that
Speaker:you don't know.
Speaker:It's just completely
Speaker:invisible to
Speaker:you and so you're
Speaker:oblivious to it.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So I'd say get into a
Speaker:process of awareness
Speaker:building and once you
Speaker:have that awareness,
Speaker:get into a process of
Speaker:accountability with
Speaker:other people that can
Speaker:hold you to a higher
Speaker:standard so that you
Speaker:can show up
Speaker:differently.
Speaker:If you do those two
Speaker:things, you'll be
Speaker:much further ahead
Speaker:than most people
Speaker:in the game.
Speaker:Amazing.
Speaker:Thank you very
Speaker:much, Mario.
Speaker:I mean, that was very,
Speaker:very insightful.
Speaker:I mean, going from
Speaker:the starting
Speaker:of the business,
Speaker:but then also
Speaker:the building
Speaker:partnerships.
Speaker:I'll definitely re
Speaker:listen to the episode
Speaker:myself, but I think
Speaker:there were a lot of
Speaker:very, very valuable
Speaker:lessons in there.
Speaker:But also going into
Speaker:the leadership
Speaker:and mindset aspect,
Speaker:which a lot of people
Speaker:really neglect.
Speaker:And also I realized
Speaker:for me how important
Speaker:that is and I'm
Speaker:definitely focusing
Speaker:way more on that now.
Speaker:So where can
Speaker:listeners find you
Speaker:online if they want
Speaker:to connect to you
Speaker:or have questions
Speaker:in general or also
Speaker:related to the
Speaker:Zenpreneur method?
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:So I would say
Speaker:the best way to learn
Speaker:more about me
Speaker:and what I do is, you
Speaker:know, the social
Speaker:media channels.
Speaker:I'm very active on
Speaker:YouTube, on LinkedIn,
Speaker:on Instagram.
Speaker:Just type in my
Speaker:name, Mario.
Speaker:A R I O and the new
Speaker:word, my last name,
Speaker:Lanzaroti, which is
Speaker:L A N Z A R O T T I.
Speaker:If you have a question
Speaker:about today's podcast
Speaker:or if you want to
Speaker:share a thought, you
Speaker:know, what you
Speaker:thought, what you
Speaker:like, what you didn't
Speaker:like, feel free to
Speaker:drop me a message.
Speaker:I'm very easy
Speaker:to reach.
Speaker:And if you want to
Speaker:have a conversation
Speaker:about leveling up
Speaker:in your business, I'm
Speaker:also down for that.
Speaker:Either way,
Speaker:I hope that this
Speaker:interview is valuable
Speaker:to someone who
Speaker:listens to it.
Speaker:And the most important
Speaker:part is take action.
Speaker:Don't just listen
Speaker:to this and go, oh,
Speaker:this is great.
Speaker:Yeah, awesome.
Speaker:Wow, cool.
Speaker:And then continue
Speaker:doing the same stuff
Speaker:that you are doing.
Speaker:Make a change.
Speaker:Because it's
Speaker:the changes that give
Speaker:us the results that
Speaker:we're looking for.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:That was great.
Speaker:And a perfect,
Speaker:perfect ending.
Speaker:So, yeah, we'll
Speaker:talk to you.
Speaker:Wonderful.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:Thank you, Andre.
Speaker:Appreciate you.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:Bye.
Speaker:Bye.
